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Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary

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  • #946
    Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
    Galatians 4:8

    There is only one God but by praying to her they have made her their god. She is a false god but a "for" for them.
    Well, at least you seem to tacitly acknowledge that you cannot defend contradictory claims. But it would be better, ie, more honest, if you would explicitly retract at least one of your contradictory false claims.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment

    • #947
      They are not contradictory.
      Paul dealt with the same thing. There is no God but one by nature (Galatians 4:8) but people can pray to anything/anyone that is not God and they become a "god" for them (1 Corinthians 10:19-20).

      Comment

      • #948
        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
        They are not contradictory.
        Paul dealt with the same thing. There is no God but one by nature (Galatians 4:8) but people can pray to anything/anyone that is not God and they become a "god" for them (1 Corinthians 10:19-20).
        Either Catholics believe Mary is a god or they are deluded and pray to her thinking she is not a god. Can't be both. Make up your mind.
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

        Comment

        • #949
          They have made her their God by praying to her.
          I have taught this all along. No need to make up my mind.

          Comment

          • #950
            Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
            They have made her their God by praying to her.
            I have taught this all along. No need to make up my mind.
            They cannot believe she is a god and not believe she is a god at the same time. You seem to think two opposite things can be true at the same time, but the rest of us (Catholics included) realize two opposite things cannot both be true at the same time.
            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment

            • #951
              Already addressed in Post #949 and the first sentence of #951.

              Comment

              • #952
                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                They cannot believe she is a god and not believe she is a god at the same time. You seem to think two opposite things can be true at the same time, but the rest of us (Catholics included) realize two opposite things cannot both be true at the same time.
                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                Already addressed in Post #949 and the first sentence of #951.
                So let's see how you addressed this:

                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                They are not contradictory.
                Paul dealt with the same thing. There is no God but one by nature (Galatians 4:8) but people can pray to anything/anyone that is not God and they become a "god" for them (1 Corinthians 10:19-20).
                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                They have made her their God by praying to her.
                Oops. You did not address how Catholics can supposedly believe she is a god and not believe she is a god at the same time.

                Let's try to clarify your position from the ground up. Which of the following statements do you think is true?

                A. Catholics believe Mary is a god.

                B. Catholics do not believe Mary is a god.

                C. Both of the above.

                D. None of the above.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment

                • #953
                  Foudroyant seems to think that the saints are unknowingly being treated as gods. That wouldn't be heresy anyway - just a misguided action, so even by what seems to be his belief, a charge of heresy can't be sustained. Even if it could be substantiated that the saints were being treated as gods, that charge would be nothing more than a malicious slander.
                  1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                  Scripture before Tradition:
                  but that won't prevent others from
                  taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                  of the right to call yourself Christian.
                  ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                  Comment

                  • #954
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    So let's see how you addressed this:



                    Oops. You did not address how Catholics can supposedly believe she is a god and not believe she is a god at the same time.

                    Let's try to clarify your position from the ground up. Which of the following statements do you think is true?

                    A. Catholics believe Mary is a god.

                    B. Catholics do not believe Mary is a god.

                    C. Both of the above.

                    D. None of the above.

                    Trainreck you are pathetic.
                    I explain this over and over and you just are so dense.

                    Pay real close attention now.....

                    By praying to Mary the RCC has made her into their God.
                    Ontologically the biblical Mary is not God.
                    But the heretical CATHOLIC Mary is a God to them.

                    Comment

                    • #955
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Foudroyant seems to think that the saints are unknowingly being treated as gods. That wouldn't be heresy anyway - just a misguided action, so even by what seems to be his belief, a charge of heresy can't be sustained. Even if it could be substantiated that the saints were being treated as gods, that charge would be nothing more than a malicious slander.

                      They offer them silent prayers and feel confident that they hear them.

                      And....not one passage in the Bible can be cited where prayer is not worship.

                      Comment

                      • #956
                        Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                        Trainreck you are pathetic.
                        I explain this over and over and you just are so dense.

                        Pay real close attention now.....

                        By praying to Mary the RCC has made her into their God.
                        Ontologically the biblical Mary is not God.
                        But the heretical CATHOLIC Mary is a God to them.
                        I understand all that. That is not the what I am asking you. Here is my question for you:

                        A. Catholics believe Mary is a god.

                        B. Catholics do not believe Mary is a god.

                        C. Both of the above.

                        D. None of the above.
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment

                        • #957
                          Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                          They offer them silent prayers and feel confident that they hear them.

                          And....not one passage in the Bible can be cited where prayer is not worship.
                          No passage can be cited that defines prayer as worship. And the Bible does show that people are legitimately prayed to - except when that prayer is a specific type, which is reserved for addressing a deity. Even that form of prayer is not defined as worship - it is simply done on occasion within the context of worship - which your extra-biblical references also state.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment

                          • #958
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            No passage can be cited that defines prayer as worship. And the Bible does show that people are legitimately prayed to - except when that prayer is a specific type, which is reserved for addressing a deity. Even that form of prayer is not defined as worship - it is simply done on occasion within the context of worship - which your extra-biblical references also state.
                            Every one is worship.

                            Simple and correct.

                            Comment

                            • #959
                              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                              I understand all that. That is not the what I am asking you. Here is my question for you:

                              A. Catholics believe Mary is a god.

                              B. Catholics do not believe Mary is a god.

                              C. Both of the above.

                              D. None of the above.
                              i dont care what they say they believe just like the idiot basketball player who believes he is playing baseball. the facts speak otherwise to what all those morons say.

                              Comment

                              • #960
                                Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                                i dont care what they say they believe just like the idiot basketball player who believes he is playing baseball. the facts speak otherwise to what all those morons say.
                                You cared enough before to misrepresent what they say and believe. Misrepresentation is wrong.
                                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.
                                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                                Comment

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