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Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary

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  • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
    No one else but God is "all holy".
    In fact, it is His name (Psalm 111:9; Isaiah 57:15; Luke 1:49).
    Like I say, you really should read the Bible more often:

    קָד֖וֹשׁ וְנוֹרָ֣א שְׁמֽוֹ ἅγιον καὶ φοβερὸν τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ

    קָד֣וֹשׁ שְׁמ֔וֹ ἅγιος ἐν ἁγίοις ὄνομα αὐτῷ

    ἅγιον τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

    Comment


    • Only God is "most holy".
      You teach Mary is as well.


      I see you are suffering from truth decay. It's time you brush up on your Bible.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
        Only God is "most holy".
        You teach Mary is as well.

        I see you are suffering from truth decay. It's time you brush up on your Bible.
        But you are the one who cannot find a passage to back up what you say is in the Bible. You cannot blame me for that. I just told you what the Bible actually says.

        Here's a Bible Church that appreciates the Divine Liturgy of St James:

        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

        Comment


        • I did find a passage to back up what I say.

          See Post #761.

          Only the God of the Bible is "most holy".

          Simple.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
            I did find a passage to back up what I say.

            See Post #761.

            Only the God of the Bible is "most holy".

            Simple.
            Except none of the passages you cited in your Posts 761 or 765 say what you think they do. I've already cited the original language of the posts you cited in 765. Note the one you cite in 761 uses a completely different word:

            τίς οὐ μὴ φοβηθῇ, κύριε, καὶ δοξάσει τὸ ὄνομά σου; ὅτι μόνος ὅσιος.

            No wonder you need so many dictionaries. You've never considered the Bible important enough to learn the original languages. It's not too late to start to read the Bible.

            Notice the Methodists do a much better rendition of the divine Liturgy of St James:

            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

            Comment


            • I cited Revelation 15:4 in Post #761.

              Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For all the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed (Revelation 15:4, NASB).


              a. TDNT: He and He alone is worthy to be praised and perfectly blameless, maintaining righteousness and truth without abridgment or disruption, and bringing salvation by His acts (5:492, holy-osios, Hauck).
              b. Robert Mounce: To glorify the name of God is to praise him for what he is and all he has accomplished. All shall come before God in worship because he alone is holy. (The Book of Revelation, page 288)
              c. William Mounce: God is the only entity in his class; he has no peers (cf. Jn. 5:44; 17:3; Rom. 16:27; 1 Tim. 6:15; Jude 4; Rev. 15:4) (Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Only, page 487).
              d. G.K. Beale: God is to be worshiped as true "because (hoti) only" he is "holy". (The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text, page 796)
              e. Danker: pertaining to being the only entity in a class, only, alone...Rv 15:4 (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, monos, pages 658-659).

              What an abomination to say that Mary is "most holy".

              Absolutely disgusting.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                I cited Revelation 15:4 in Post #761.

                Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For all the nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed (Revelation 15:4, NASB).


                a. TDNT: He and He alone is worthy to be praised and perfectly blameless, maintaining righteousness and truth without abridgment or disruption, and bringing salvation by His acts (5:492, holy-osios, Hauck).
                b. Robert Mounce: To glorify the name of God is to praise him for what he is and all he has accomplished. All shall come before God in worship because he alone is holy. (The Book of Revelation, page 288)
                c. William Mounce: God is the only entity in his class; he has no peers (cf. Jn. 5:44; 17:3; Rom. 16:27; 1 Tim. 6:15; Jude 4; Rev. 15:4) (Mounce's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, Only, page 487).
                d. G.K. Beale: God is to be worshiped as true "because (hoti) only" he is "holy". (The Book of Revelation: A Commentary on the Greek Text, page 796)
                e. Danker: pertaining to being the only entity in a class, only, alone...Rv 15:4 (A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, monos, pages 658-659).

                What an abomination to say that Mary is "most holy".

                Absolutely disgusting.
                You still don't realize this is a completely different Greek word, do you?

                This is a very nice version:

                Last edited by robrecht; 08-16-2014, 10:22 PM.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • Post #751 is in English.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                    Post #751 is in English.
                    Would you prefer the Greek or Syriac?
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                    Comment


                    • This will do from Post #751:

                      "Commemorating our all-holy, pure, most glorious, blessed Lady, the God-Mother and Ever-Virgin Mary, and all the saints that have been well-pleasing to You since the world began, let us devote ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, to Christ our God"

                      Does it read that Mary is "all-holy"?

                      Yes

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                        This will do from Post #751:

                        "Commemorating our all-holy, pure, most glorious, blessed Lady, the God-Mother and Ever-Virgin Mary, and all the saints that have been well-pleasing to You since the world began, let us devote ourselves, and one another, and our whole life, to Christ our God"

                        Does it read that Mary is "all-holy"?

                        Yes
                        The word is πανάγιος, used in 4 Maccabbees for martyrs to the faith and by Philo of Alexandria for the holy food on the altar. So, do you see now how your uninformed and biased use of Bible dictionaries has led you completely astray? You think Mary the mother of God in heaven is less holy than the Jewish martyrs of Maccabbean times or than the bread of the altar in the Temple?
                        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                        Comment


                        • Specifically where in 4 Maccabees?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                            Specifically where in 4 Maccabees?
                            7,4 and 14,7.

                            Tchaïkovsky's version in Russian is perhaps most heavenly:

                            βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                            ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                            אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                            Comment


                            • [7] O most holy seven, brothers in harmony! For just as the seven days of creation move in choral dance around religion
                              http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/...1&byte=4496061

                              Try finding something from what God actually inspired.
                              Thanks for another portion of the Apocrypha demonstrating why it ain't God's word.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                                [7] O most holy seven, brothers in harmony! For just as the seven days of creation move in choral dance around religion
                                http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/...1&byte=4496061

                                Try finding something from what God actually inspired.
                                Thanks for another portion of the Apocrypha demonstrating why it ain't God's word.
                                The point is the meaning of the word. Do you really not understand that? Personally, I think the Eucharistic liturgy is divinely inspired and am exceedingly blest to be able to participate in the heavenly worship of God, that which you scornfully consider blasphemy and idolatry on account of your unfortunate ignorance.
                                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                                Comment

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