Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary

[Spartacus]

No, because you can't cite one passage from the Bible that supports this.

What about logical scrutiny? Does it seem to make sense internally?

[foudroyant]

Still more examples where the Bible teaches that prayer is due unto God alone and that prayer is worship.

God is only to be prayed to because He alone is absolutely holy (Matthew 6:9). In the same way God is only to be worshiped because He alone is absolutely holy (Revelation 15:4).

By praying to/worshiping Mary Roman Catholics (whether they realize it or not) are putting Mary on the same realm of absolute holiness as God. Indeed, the Matthew text speaks in the context of prayer as God knowing what is done in "secret" (6:6) and knowing what is needed by those who pray beforehand (6:8). Both of these passages teach the omniscience of God. By insisting Mary can be prayed to/worshiped the RCC and others have attributed both absolute holiness and omniscience to her which are attributes God alone possesses.
This is blasphemy.

[foudroyant]

What about logical scrutiny? Does it seem to make sense internally?

Not if Scripture already warns against it.

[Spartacus]

Not if Scripture already warns against it.

It doesn't explicitly warn against it. It can't both be silent about something and warn against it. Get your story straight.

In any case, nice to know that the 3 days I spent thinking about how to explain the underlying theology to you were well spent. For all I can tell, you didn't even read my post.

[foudroyant]

See Post #467.

I read your stupid post. Just more of your own wishful thinking with no passages from the Bible that agree with you.

[One Bad Pig]

Everywhere.

Then it should be easy for you to provide a citation which equates prayer and worship.

[One Bad Pig]

No, because you can't cite one passage from the Bible that supports this.

Let me know where the Bible states it is the complete revelation of God and the sole source of what is permissible.

[foudroyant]

Post #467

[tabibito]

the Matthew text speaks in the context of prayer as God knowing what is done in "secret"

1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;

[Spartacus]

See Post #467.

I read your stupid post. Just more of your own wishful thinking with no passages that agree with you.

Anything on the part of the saints that looks like omniscience comes about only by participation in God's omniscience. What knowledge they have is given to them by God. What is idolatrous about that? Nothing. Moreover, it is entirely consistent with the idea of theosis as articulated by so many early Christians, but notably summarized by St. Athanasius (the greatest and most famous defender of the Nicene Creed) as "God became man so that man might become God."

And then there's Luke 10:16. "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me." If we know that the saints have continued to intercede on our behalf-- and people have had visions to that effect-- then refusing to acknowledge the accompanying miracles is to reject the clear workings of God's grace. Furthermore, to say that such miracles must be demonic in nature is to fall into the same trap as the Pharisees in Matthew 12. To refuse to acknowledge the workings of grace through God's chosen saints is to refuse to give God due praise for His mighty deeds.

[foudroyant]

1Co 14:24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;

Your point?

[foudroyant]

Anything on the part of the saints that looks like omniscience comes about only by participation in God's omniscience. What knowledge they have is given to them by God. What is idolatrous about that? Nothing. Moreover, it is entirely consistent with the idea of theosis as articulated by so many early Christians, but notably summarized by St. Athanasius (the greatest and most famous defender of the Nicene Creed) as "God became man so that man might become God."

And then there's Luke 10:16. "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me." If we know that the saints have continued to intercede on our behalf-- and people have had visions to that effect-- then refusing to acknowledge the accompanying miracles is to reject the clear workings of God's grace. Furthermore, to say that such miracles must be demonic in nature is to fall into the same trap as the Pharisees in Matthew 12. To refuse to acknowledge the workings of grace through God's chosen saints is to refuse to give God due praise for His mighty deeds.

The passages I supplied were all ignored.
God is prayed to/worshiped because of His absolute holiness.

[Spartacus]

The passages I supplied were all ignored.
God is prayed to/worshiped because of His absolute holiness.

A holiness which is occasionally shown through His Saints. Do you deny this?

[foudroyant]

Their holiness is never in the absolute whereby prayer/worship can be rendered unto them (Matthew 6:6, 8, 9; Revelation 15:4).

[Spartacus]

Their holiness is never in the absolute whereby prayer/worship can be rendered unto them (Matthew 6:6, 8, 9; Revelation 15:4).

Correct. Not worship. Just reverence.