Originally posted by foudroyant
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
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Praying to Mary is worshiping Mary
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostYou missed my point entirely. To use psalms of praise of God to make polemical doctrinal points against religious enemies sort of misses the real meaning of worship.
Maccabees isn't Scripture.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostFirst you have to ignore the point that this is about circumstances when people don't know how to pray.
Interesting to see that you are better at prayer than Paul.
"For WE (Paul includes himself) do not know how to pray as we should" (Romans 8:26, NASB, emphasis mine)
First the denial of how words are defined and now the claim to be better at prayer than Paul.
Your arrogance stubbornly marches on.
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Originally posted by apostoli View PostIf I am seriously demented, why is it that you are unable to affirm the most basic of Christian belief????
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Originally posted by foudroyantapostoli is seriously demented.
See Post #49
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...rd-Jesus/page5
Nuff said about that
To this quack
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Here is what I originally asked you, at least thirty times. Not once have you had the confidence of conviction to directly answer me at least once (though you did provide a diversion to each post).
Questions arise regarding your opinion: Do you ascribe to the Nicene Creed or reject it? Do you believe that before his incarnation the Son was begotten by his Father, not made, God from God? Do you believe that the Son is a distinct entity/individual from his Father? Do you believe the scripture's account that the Son was incarnated not of his own volition but was sent by his Father? Do you believe that in the end of times the Son will share his Father's throne, at the will of the Father? Do you believe, as A.Paul certainly did, that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead? Do you believe, as the apostles John & Paul certainly did, that all Jesus did was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)
So far, foudroyant, in his general cowardice, has not affirmed or denied any of the above propositions. Even though they are all Biblically substantiated!!!
I've simply concluded he has had a puff too much on the weed...and has attached himself to what I call the "christian taliban in the USA" (those, who for no rational reason, hate Jews, Catholics & Blacks and reject most Christian belief).
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On another thread, it came plainly obvious to me that foudroyant does not subscribe to any form of Orthodox or Protestant mainstream Christianity (I assume he is a Sabellian (oneness pentecostal)...
Elsewhere, I presented him with a few standard Christian propositions. He, over a lengthy period of time, and multiple repetitions on my part, resorted to a range of diversions and never responded to my direct queries. I'll summarise what I have had to conclude are his denials of standard/orthodox/mainstream Christian faith:
1. foudroyant apparently rejects the teaching of the Nicene Creed, even though it has been reaffirmed continuously by the majority churches since at least 325CE.
2. foudroyant apparently rejects that Jesus was begotten of the Father, not made, God from God.
3. foudroyant apparently rejects that the Son is a distinct entity/individual/person from his Father. ( foudroyant apparently assumes, despite the testimony of scripture, that the Father and Son are simply fabrications of the same person).
4. foudroyant apparently believes the Son was incarnated as a phantasm, not a real person, who obviously, as being such, could not die on the cross.
5. foudroyant apparently believes the Father and the Son are simply manifestations of the same person. If so, then, obviously, foudroyant rejects the witness of the NT, and most particularly rejects A.John's testimony in the book of Revelation. Which is most strange! Given A.John, in his vision. has it that, in the end of times, the Son shares his Father's throne.
6. foudroyant apparently rejects A.Paul's testimony that God (the Father) raised Jesus from the dead! ((Acts 2:24, 32; 3:15, 26; 4:10; 5:30; 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Rom. 4:24; 6:4; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; Gal. 1:1; Col. 2:12; Rom 8:11).
7. foudroyant apparently rejects A.John's & A.Paul's inspired testimony, that all Jesus did, including his death and resurrection, was for the glorification of his Father (cp. Jn 17, Phil 2)
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foudroyant, you can run but you cannot hide. There are many people here that have known me for years, and though some may not agree with my every premise I am confident I would garner more support than what I assume is your oneness pentecostal (or personal) trash...Last edited by apostoli; 08-18-2014, 08:25 AM.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostTo thee all flesh shall come. This refers to worship. People go to God in prayer which is worship.
All the rest of creation of impersonal things anthropomorphically gives praise to God so your point misses what the text is saying.
God can hear all prayers - even silent ones - by myriads of people with a vast array of requests, for any length of time at any period of time and fully understand them.
Can anyone else do the same?
Nope.
You didn't address Romans 8:26-27.
Post #797
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...ng-Mary/page80
I have no dispute with Paul's letter to the Romans. It certainly does not forbid what James commands, ie, intercession for one another. All creation groans for the revelation of the sons of God. All of God's creation is directed toward the worship of God, including all the angels and saints.
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostHow does it contradict it?
What it says is: God is the searcher of hearts, and the Holy Spirit makes intercession when we don't know what our prayer should be. God knows what the Holy Spirit has in mind, and has appointed the Holy Spirit to the fulfil the office of intercession.
First you have to ignore the point that this is about circumstances when people don't know how to pray.
Next you have to ignore the point that the Holy Spirit is not the only intercessor.
So you can then say, the only intercessor appointed by God in all circumstances is the Holy Spirit.
It's much the same process as is used by the sola fide crowd to demonstrate that people are saved by faith alone.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View PostRomans 8:27 contradicts praying to Mary...the subject of this thread.
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Originally posted by foudroyantneither is your opinion that you are so fond of.
You are ducking from Romans 8:27.
The Holy Spirit makes intercession for us. Is he the only one? I thought Jesus also makes intercession for us.
"He who searches the hearts" is God, who knows what the mind of the Holy Spirit is (I didn't capitalise "Spirit" - the translators did). And the Holy Spirit makes intercession.
My opinions are not second hand - and I am not one who says "The Bible says this, but it really means ...". If people have a problem with my opinions, I am happy to re-examine them when presented with new information that calls those opinions into question. You, however, don't have the capacity to either present new information or critically examine your opinions and change them as warranted. And often enough, I have admitted when my opinions have been deficient or wrong. You don't have the capacity to demonstrate that your second hand opinions have any substance. Nor have your second hand opinions been put to the test in the field.Last edited by tabibito; 08-18-2014, 03:28 AM.
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostNeither are the commentaries that you are so fond of.
You are ducking from Romans 8:27.
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Originally posted by TimelessTheist View PostYou still haven't explained how Maccabees contradicts that passage.
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Originally posted by foudroyant View Postim busy right now doing something
ok they were praying for the dead. whatever...it's not inspired by God anyway.
Still waiting for a real response concerning Romans 8:27.
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im busy right now doing something
ok they were praying for the dead. whatever...it's not inspired by God anyway.
Still waiting for a real response concerning Romans 8:27.
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