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How do we determine whether the Bible is the Word of God?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    There are many other kinds of contradictions as well in the Bible. For example, while 1 Timothy 6:16 says "no one has seen God nor can anyone see him", Job said to God in Job 42:5 "my eyes have seen you" and "those that are pure in heart will see God".
    Same (or perhaps you prefer Hakeem?), do you have any idea what an idiom is, or how sometimes words are used figuratively instead of literally? Because that is how the word "see" is used in Job 42:5. Job is not claiming to have literally seen God. Here's the entire poem from which the verse is taken:

    Scripture Verse: Job 42:1-6 ESV


    Then Job answered the Lord and said:

    2 “I know that you can do all things,
    and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
    3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
    Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
    things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
    4 ‘Hear, and I will speak;
    I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
    5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
    but now my eye sees you;
    6 therefore I despise myself,
    and repent in dust and ashes.”

    © Copyright Original Source



    "I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you;" or, in other words "Previously my knowledge of you came through rumors and hearsay, but now my knowledge of you comes from personal and intimate experience".
    ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
      Same (or perhaps you prefer Hakeem?), do you have any idea what an idiom is, or how sometimes words are used figuratively instead of literally? Because that is how the word "see" is used in Job 42:5. Job is not claiming to have literally seen God. Here's the entire poem from which the verse is taken:

      Scripture Verse: Job 42:1-6 ESV


      Then Job answered the Lord and said:

      2 “I know that you can do all things,
      and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
      3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’
      Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand,
      things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
      4 ‘Hear, and I will speak;
      I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
      5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
      but now my eye sees you;
      6 therefore I despise myself,
      and repent in dust and ashes.”

      © Copyright Original Source



      "I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you;" or, in other words "Previously my knowledge of you came through rumors and hearsay, but now my knowledge of you comes from personal and intimate experience".
      My impression is, that the OP expects the Bible to be a Jewish Koran. The Koran is almost a Divine monologue, with a single character onstage almost all the time. The human element is cut to the absolute minimum. The idea seems to be, that a Scripture with any real human involvement is less really Divine and pure than one in which the only character is God. The full-blooded humanity of the Bible seems to be a real stumbling-block for Muslims.

      And the Bible is not like the Koran, for God is made known through being involved with creatures - His very first action in the Bible, is to create something that is not Himself - whereas the god of Islam is remote from human history, far too exalted to do anything so yucky as to become a man.

      It doesn’t help that the Bible has at times been spoken of as though it consisted of nothing but universally & eternally valid moral principles devoid of cultural context or conditioning. That it is rooted in a very specific set of cultures, over a long period of time, probably does not help either.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
        Same (or perhaps you prefer Hakeem?),
        He signed up initially as Hakeem, and apparently lost his password or something during a hiatus and reregistered. We offered to link the two and reset the password under his old account, but he didn't care enough to respond.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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        • #49
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          He signed up initially as Hakeem, and apparently lost his password or something during a hiatus and reregistered. We offered to link the two and reset the password under his old account, but he didn't care enough to respond.
          I'm guessing there is a significant language barrier here (and that's the most generous conclusion I can draw).
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #50
            Well, it is written that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Is the bible God? ...or a testimony of One who says that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him? And is this reward a bible and instructions to figure it out for yourself? Hmmm...
            Last edited by Jeff; 11-23-2018, 12:19 AM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Jeff View Post
              Well, it is written that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Is the bible God? ...or a testimony of One who says that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him? And is this reward a bible and instructions to figure it out for yourself? Hmmm...
              The Word is not the bible.
              ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

              Comment


              • #52
                ...nor is the bible the Word. Tis a God breathed testimony of the true Word made flesh in "whom" is revealed the one true "Speaker". Point... without a true knowledge of these one cannot rightly comprehend what is written... which explains the division among the sects. The Spirit makes the many One, not the One many.

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                • #53
                  Jeff, first of all, welcome to Tweb.

                  Secondly, please take note that each forum has its own rules for who can post in that forum. Some forums are only open to orthodox Christians, some are open to everybody, and some "Christian" threads restrict unorthodox Christians from posting.

                  Since your faith designation is "Unorthodox Christian", as defined by Tweb, it would be good for you to check the rules for each forum BEFORE posting or starting a thread.

                  If you need help with that, or have questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

                  CP
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                  • #54
                    Thx Cow Poke. I keep forgetting that though I know my Lord and am a coworker in Him for His glory alone, many think otherwise. I will pay closer attention to the rules. Please accept my apology.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Jeff View Post
                      Thx Cow Poke. I keep forgetting that though I know my Lord and am a coworker in Him for His glory alone, many think otherwise. I will pay closer attention to the rules. Please accept my apology.
                      Not a prob, Jeff - you don't seem like you're here to cause chaos and mayhem.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                      • #56
                        Edited by a Moderator

                        Moderated By: sparko

                        Hakeem, you are not allowed to post in Ecclesiology. It is for Christians only - This is your official warning. Please watch where you post

                        ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
                        Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

                        Last edited by Sparko; 05-03-2019, 11:51 AM.

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                        • #57
                          The Scriptures are both the written and revealed. Jesus himself was the Word John 1:1 but he also believed in the authority of Scripture as well (Matthew 4:4; Luke 24:44). One does not go against the other.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                            The Scriptures are both the written and revealed. Jesus himself was the Word John 1:1 but he also believed in the authority of Scripture as well (Matthew 4:4; Luke 24:44). One does not go against the other.
                            Yep. And just to piggy-back, when Adam heard God say " you shall not " it was the Word of God. When that history was written down, it was the written Word of God. All scripture is breathed out by the Holy Spirit whether regardless of how you become aware of it.
                            “Every promise of Scripture is a writing of God, which may be pleaded before Him with this reasonable request, ‘Do as Thou hast said.’ The Heavenly Father will not break His Word to His own child.”― Charles H. Spurgeon

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