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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.

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The Roman Catholic Church's recent decisions

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    So, because the parents aren't models of propriety the innocent baby is refused baptism.

    Not a good look at all.
    Because the parents are openly living in unrepentant sin, baptizing the innocent baby isn't going to accomplish anything. Having your baby baptized entails a commitment to raising them in the teachings of the church; how is that possible when they're being deliberately flouted? I never said anything about the parents needing to be models of propriety. I'd appreciate you not twisting my words.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #17
      We need a solid theology of what baptism is and does for such a discussion. In principle, it's difficult to see what good could come of this discussion when going back and forth where one or more parties are credobaptists and would presumably not even see the purpose of such an infant baptism to begin with. Either way, under all orthodox views of baptism I'm aware of, it would not be appropriate to baptize a child who is not going to be raised in the faith.
      Last edited by KingsGambit; 11-19-2023, 09:31 AM.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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      • #18
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        We need a solid theology of what baptism is and does for such a discussion. In principle, it's difficult to see what good could come of this discussion when going back and forth where one or more parties are credobaptists and would presumably not even see the purpose of such an infant baptism to begin with. Either way, under all orthodox views of baptism I'm aware of, it would not be appropriate to baptize a child who is not going to be raised in the faith.
        The actual act of baptizing the infant is the last thing I wanted to discuss in this post. I am just, to be honest, disgusted at the RCC's papal approach to LGBT issues, being (what I see as) purposefully nebulous while at the same time being so intently laser focused proclaiming freemasonry off limits.
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        - Stephen R. Donaldson

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

          The actual act of baptizing the infant is the last thing I wanted to discuss in this post. I am just, to be honest, disgusted at the RCC's papal approach to LGBT issues, being (what I see as) purposefully nebulous while at the same time being so intently laser focused proclaiming freemasonry off limits.
          TWeb and thread derails go together like peanut butter and jelly. They aren't always together but very commonly they are.

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          • #20
            My grandfather was a Freemason but unsurprisingly, never talked of it. What little I know of it hardly seems compatible with Christianity, so my initial instinct is not to see that as problematic.

            I do agree the messaging on homosexuality is ambiguous at best. Catholicity talked with a Spanish professor who said the letter Francis wrote a couple weeks ago was unambiguously orthodox on traditional sexual views if read in Spanish; however, the Vatican itself did authorize an English translation that doesn't give that impression. I'd also agree homosexuality is a more urgent pastoral issue than Freemasonry; far more people are involved, and the Bible actually does mention it specifically.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
              In the past few days, 2 separate reports from the Vatican have come out that, I believe, clearly exposes Francis' intent to liberalize the RCC:


              Source: https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/europe/vatican-transgender-baptism-intl-scli/index.html



              Rome
              CNN

              A new ruling by the Vatican’s doctrine department has opened the door to Catholic baptism for transgender people and babies of same-sex couples.

              The new rules, dated October 31, come from a set of questions, or dubia, submitted to the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith (DDF) by Brazilian bishop Giuseppe Negri. The answers to his questions about certain sacraments were published on the Vatican’s website in Italian on Wednesday evening.

              Regarding transgender people, the document says a person who identifies as transgender can be baptized like any other adult, “as long as there is no risk of causing scandal or disorientation” to other Catholics.

              Children who identify as transgender can also be baptized if “well prepared and willing,” it says. The document also states that transgender people, including those who have undergone gender reassignment procedures, can be godparents and witnesses in Catholic weddings under the right circumstances.

              Children of same-sex couples can also be baptized, as long as there is a “well-founded hope that he or she will be educated in the Catholic religion.”

              © Copyright Original Source





              Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/vatican-confirms-ban-catholics-becoming-freemasons-2023-11-15/



              VATICAN CITY, Nov 15 (Reuters) - The Vatican has confirmed a ban on Catholics becoming Freemasons, a centuries-old secretive society that the Catholic Church has long viewed with hostility and has an estimated global membership of up to six million.

              "Active membership in Freemasonry by a member of the faithful is prohibited, because of the irreconcilability between Catholic doctrine and Freemasonry," the Vatican's doctrinal office said in a letter published by Vatican media on Wednesday.

              © Copyright Original Source






              More of each article can be read at the citation.
              Reuters left out that the document stated that they may be Baptized under the same conditions as the rest of the faithful. What that means is that one is Baptized not as a sign of their belief but they are Baptized for the remission of sins. The pope also stated that since Baptism washes away sins a person must demonstrate reception of that grace which means that a person absolutely has to repent and resolve to amend their life. I wouldn't get my news from Reuters if I were you, as they have a tendency to take what's said and twist it to be what they want it to say, especially when it comes to the Catholic Church. I.E. they want someone who is trans to be able to have their cake and eat it too,but again this is not what the Pope said at all. https://www.usccb.org/news/2023/doct...an-be-baptized
              where it says "under the same conditions as the other faithful:
              the official Catechism says of Baptism of Adults
              "The Baptism of adults

              1247 Since the beginning of the Church, adult Baptism is the common practice where the proclamation of the Gospel is still new. The catechumenate (preparation for Baptism) therefore occupies an important place. This initiation into Christian faith and life should dispose the catechumen to receive the gift of God in Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist.

              1248 The catechumenate, or formation of catechumens, aims at bringing their conversion and faith to maturity, in response to the divine initiative and in union with an ecclesial community. The catechumenate is to be "a formation in the whole Christian life . . . during which the disciples will be joined to Christ their teacher. The catechumens should be properly initiated into the mystery of salvation and the practice of the evangelical virtues, and they should be introduced into the life of faith, liturgy, and charity of the People of God by successive sacred rites."47"

              A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
              George Bernard Shaw

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