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Bring a gun to church: the kiss of peace or politics as usual?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
    Not sure I understand: "he symbolizes what the progressive hegemony 's fear of death"
    - Are you saying that progressives are afraid of death and therefore view Hitler as the worst monster in history because he is a symbol of death? Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to understand your point.
    Sorry, I have the bad habit of rewriting sentences without re-reading them so sometimes they come out nonsensical. "he symbolizes the progressive hegemony's fear of death." is probably what I wanted to say. What that means is not that progressives fear death. They do, but so does everyone else. Rather it's that Hitler personifies what is most lethal to them. Progressives thrive in political environments where they are seen as in-group members. Xenophobia triggers in normal people would probably prevent, say, Muslims from building a Western theocracy in the same way progressives built up their hegemony. Normal people and conservatives in particular would react stronger, and probably violently. But since in large part most visible progressives and progressive leaders share the same ethnic make-up as everybody else (at least relative to the global population) the response is rarely violent. Fascist and fascist-like ideologies OTOH will use violence when they think it's warranted with a level of non-discriminatory egalitarianism that would make MLK Jr. proud. If you're a threat and they can kill you, they will.

    This probably grossly oversimplifies the situation, but I think it gets the point across:

    Example 1
    Progressive: That's racist!
    Conservative: No it's not! I have a valid point! You're racist!

    vs

    Example 2
    Progressive: That's racist!
    NAZI: So? *revs up minigun*

    Also, the fact that I noticed your 'new' avatar says something about my personality? If that's what you meant, what does it supposedly say about my personality?
    You couldn't help but comment on it, so you lean left at the very least. Rather than commenting with outrage or derision like some of the Lesser Liberals here though you merely inquired about it, so you probably place a high premium on acquiring knowledge and have enough self control not to lash out with every impulse.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

    Comment


    • #17
      LOL. My brother routinely wears his gun at church


      ...when he is in uniform. He's a cop.

      He also helps out with passing the collection plate. His pastor jokes it is probably the only church around that makes collections with a gun.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the most obvious "progressive" link: Hitler's views on eugenics were more extreme than anything hitherto seen, but were certainly based on views in vogue in some progressive circles early in the 20th century. Trying to place him on an (especially American) political spectrum seems rather like a waste of time though.
        My favorite bit of Hitler trolling was his nationalizing of unions. That's like taking the American political spectrum, folding it into an airplane and running around the room with it while making airplane noises.
        "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

        There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

        Comment


        • #19
          I am against the nationalizing of unicorns.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
            Hi, Darth. I notice you have a new Hitler avatar. Peace be with you.
            And my avatar is an affectionate tribute to Darth, in case you hadn't noticed.
            Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              Sorry, I have the bad habit of rewriting sentences without re-reading them so sometimes they come out nonsensical. "he symbolizes the progressive hegemony's fear of death." is probably what I wanted to say. What that means is not that progressives fear death. They do, but so does everyone else. Rather it's that Hitler personifies what is most lethal to them. Progressives thrive in political environments where they are seen as in-group members. Xenophobia triggers in normal people would probably prevent, say, Muslims from building a Western theocracy in the same way progressives built up their hegemony. Normal people and conservatives in particular would react stronger, and probably violently. But since in large part most visible progressives and progressive leaders share the same ethnic make-up as everybody else (at least relative to the global population) the response is rarely violent. Fascist and fascist-like ideologies OTOH will use violence when they think it's warranted with a level of non-discriminatory egalitarianism that would make MLK Jr. proud. If you're a threat and they can kill you, they will.

              This probably grossly oversimplifies the situation, but I think it gets the point across:

              Example 1
              Progressive: That's racist!
              Conservative: No it's not! I have a valid point! You're racist!

              vs

              Example 2
              Progressive: That's racist!
              NAZI: So? *revs up minigun*
              Thanks for the fuller explanation. I'm still not quite getting it, 'though. What exactly about (or why is it that) Hitler personifies what is most lethal to progressives?

              In your example, you oppose progressives to conservatives and progressives to NAZIs. How does that clarify that specifically progressive reaction to Hitler? Rather, it seems to me to represent differing reactions of Conservatives and NAZIs to progressive denunciations of racism.

              Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
              You couldn't help but comment on it, so you lean left at the very least. Rather than commenting with outrage or derision like some of the Lesser Liberals here though you merely inquired about it, so you probably place a high premium on acquiring knowledge and have enough self control not to lash out with every impulse.
              What makes you think that I couldn't help but comment on it? I did comment on it, but I don't think it was compulsory. I just noticed something 'new' about you that ultimately seemed curious. Do conservatives (true conservatives, not the staunch conservatives that are infected with some degree of progressivism) not notice or comment on your Hitler avatar?
              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                And my avatar is an affectionate tribute to Darth, in case you hadn't noticed.
                I had not noticed, and still don't. Even if I zoom in on it 400%, I can't tell what it is.
                βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  LOL. My brother routinely wears his gun at church


                  ...when he is in uniform. He's a cop.

                  He also helps out with passing the collection plate. His pastor jokes it is probably the only church around that makes collections with a gun.
                  Any liberal academics in your church? If there were, would your bother be tempted to take them out and shoot them?
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                    Any liberal academics in your church? If there were, would your bother be tempted to take them out and shoot them?
                    I don't know. but probably not many if any liberals in it. The church is southern baptist and in a military town next to an army base. Half of the members are soldiers and their families.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      I had not noticed, and still don't. Even if I zoom in on it 400%, I can't tell what it is.
                      http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wi..._Destiny_33%29
                      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                        Any liberal academics in your church? If there were, would your bother be tempted to take them out and shoot them?
                        What a great underail!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          What a great underail!
                          What is an "underail"?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by John Reece View Post
                            What is an "underail"?
                            Sorry - I should have hyphenated -- -un-derail.... he brought it back to the heart of the topic of the thread.

                            For the record, I don't even entertain thoughts of having thoughts about shooting, or even harming, liberals. Even the ones in Austin who were surrounding the prayer groups shouting "hail satan".
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Our "bring a gun to Church" discussions centered around news stories like this...

                              Source: PBS News Hour

                              The gunman, identified Thursday as Larry Gene Ashbrook of Fort Worth, shouted obscenities as he emptied three ammunition clips from a nine-millimeter, semi-automatic handgun at the gathered congregation.

                              Ashbrook, who authorities described as chronically unemployed and “very troubled,” had six full magazines of ammunition left when he took his own life in a back pew at the church.

                              According to police, Ashbrook also rolled a pipe bomb down one of the church’s aisles. They said the bomb exploded, but caused little damage.

                              Nearly 150 teenagers were attending the service. Of the seven people killed, three teenagers and three adults died at the church, according to police. Another teen died later at a nearby hospital.

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              I have two men, both commissioned law officers, who regularly bring their guns to Church at my request. One of them works the soundboard, giving him a commanding view of the entrances to the auditorium, and the congregation.


                              According to the Associated Press, seven others, ranging in age from 12 to 41, were injured in the shooting. Their conditions reportedly improved overnight.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                                Thanks for the fuller explanation. I'm still not quite getting it, 'though. What exactly about (or why is it that) Hitler personifies what is most lethal to progressives?
                                Alright, I'll try to simplify it further: He was the charismatic leader of the most successful progressive extermination machine in history (and arguably the best dressed).

                                In your example, you oppose progressives to conservatives and progressives to NAZIs. How does that clarify that specifically progressive reaction to Hitler? Rather, it seems to me to represent differing reactions of Conservatives and NAZIs to progressive denunciations of racism.
                                It's supposed to exemplify why NAZIs are lethal to progressives (and thus why progressives fear them instinctively). Conservatives aren't a threat. NAZIs are because their traditional tactics don't work even if the NAZI isn't aware of what the progressive is trying to do.

                                What makes you think that I couldn't help but comment on it? I did comment on it, but I don't think it was compulsory. I just noticed something 'new' about you that ultimately seemed curious. Do conservatives (true conservatives, not the staunch conservatives that are infected with some degree of progressivism) not notice or comment on your Hitler avatar?
                                Only one arguable conservative has commented on it (also inquisitively) and she has no impulse control whatsoever. The commentary has flown decisively from one side of the political spectrum.
                                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                                Comment

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