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Baptism in Jesus’ name, Trinitarian style.

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  • #76
    Originally posted by tabibito View Post

    You may cite an inaccurate translation as much as you like - the source texts say "lord," not "Jesus."
    I can prove it other ways too. But the older manuscripts do it for me. It's from some of the oldest scripture we presently have.

    Comment


    • #77
      [QUOTE=Dave L;n1340976]

      I can prove it other ways too. But the older manuscripts do it for me.


      It's from some of the oldest scripture we presently have.
      The ESV is ADAPTED from the RSV - it doesn't even translate directly from the source texts.
      But - ah yes - the UBS 5 does have "Jesus" - which would equate to the Old Testament "the Angel of the Lord," as at Judges 2:1
      1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
      Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
      .
      "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

      "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by Dave L View Post

        You are denying the trinity when you say Jesus was the name only of the Son. God is one indivisible being called YHWH in the OT which turns into Jesus Christ in the NT. “Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that Jesus, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.” Jude 5 (ESV)

        “and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they were all drinking from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:4)
        Most translations, including your favorite KJV, have

        I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

        So now you are cherry picking translations to try to make a point, which is dishonest.

        But regardless, since Jesus is the Son, and the Son is God, then yes, the Son was the one who saved the people out of Egypt. You could just as correctly say the Father/Holy Spirit saved the people out of Egypt.

        And as you correctly mention, God is called YHWH in the OT. That is his NAME as he tells Moses. YHWH is the Triune God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

        Nothing you said shows that Jesus was the name of the Triune God. Jesus is the name of the Son. Jesus is indeed YHWH. As is the Father and the Holy Spirit. So if there is one name to call the Trinity, it is YHWH.

        And "Christ" is a title not his name. It means "Anointed one" or "Messiah"



        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Most translations, including your favorite KJV, have

          I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

          So now you are cherry picking translations to try to make a point, which is dishonest.

          But regardless, since Jesus is the Son, and the Son is God, then yes, the Son was the one who saved the people out of Egypt. You could just as correctly say the Father/Holy Spirit saved the people out of Egypt.

          And as you correctly mention, God is called YHWH in the OT. That is his NAME as he tells Moses. YHWH is the Triune God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

          Nothing you said shows that Jesus was the name of the Triune God. Jesus is the name of the Son. Jesus is indeed YHWH. As is the Father and the Holy Spirit. So if there is one name to call the Trinity, it is YHWH.

          And "Christ" is a title not his name. It means "Anointed one" or "Messiah"

          YHWH = Lord in the LXX. Jesus Christ = Lord in the NT greek = God is Jesus Christ in trinity.

          Comment


          • #80

            Originally posted by Dave L View Post
            Your insult tells me, you have nothing but pent-up frustration to run on. Try to be more like Jesus.
            Oh, the IRON E.

            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              Most translations, including your favorite KJV, have

              I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

              So now you are cherry picking translations to try to make a point, which is dishonest.

              But regardless, since Jesus is the Son, and the Son is God, then yes, the Son was the one who saved the people out of Egypt. You could just as correctly say the Father/Holy Spirit saved the people out of Egypt.

              And as you correctly mention, God is called YHWH in the OT. That is his NAME as he tells Moses. YHWH is the Triune God, The Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

              Nothing you said shows that Jesus was the name of the Triune God. Jesus is the name of the Son. Jesus is indeed YHWH. As is the Father and the Holy Spirit. So if there is one name to call the Trinity, it is YHWH.

              And "Christ" is a title not his name. It means "Anointed one" or "Messiah"

              I don't believe, "in all my borned days", that I have ever seen anybody make that claim (Dave's) with a straight face.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                YHWH = Lord in the LXX. Jesus Christ = Lord in the NT greek = God is Jesus Christ in trinity.
                LORD in the OT is just a substitute for using God's name: YHWH. "Lord" in the NT is just the translation of the greek word "Adonai" - Neither word has anything to do with the name "Jesus"

                Jesus is the Son's personal name. "Yeshua" to be more precise - Jesus is just an English translation of his name.

                If you think you must be baptized in the name of Jesus then you have not done so because his actual name is "Yeshua" - were you baptized in the name of "Yeshua?"

                Comment


                • #83
                  The apostles' prayer in Acts addresses the Father as Lord - nominating Jesus as either his servant or child.
                  Acts 4:24 apparently addresses God (the Trinity) as Lord.
                  No joy there for trying to pin "lord" to any particular member of the Trinity.
                  1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                  Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                  .
                  "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                  "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                    LORD in the OT is just a substitute for using God's name: YHWH. "Lord" in the NT is just the translation of the greek word "Adonai" - Neither word has anything to do with the name "Jesus"

                    Jesus is the Son's personal name. "Yeshua" to be more precise - Jesus is just an English translation of his name.

                    If you think you must be baptized in the name of Jesus then you have not done so because his actual name is "Yeshua" - were you baptized in the name of "Yeshua?"
                    Scripture shows Jesus Christ as YHWH in the OT. If he is God, how can he not be?

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                      Scripture shows Jesus Christ as YHWH in the OT. If he is God, how can he not be?
                      Jesus (Yeshua) is the Son, correct? One person of the Trinity. The Father is one person of the Trinity as is the Holy Spirit. ONE GOD revealed in three distinct persons. Each person of the Trinity is fully God and yet the Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit . So yes, Jesus (the Son) is YHWH. And the Father is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. YHWH is the name of the Triune God. Not Jesus. Jesus is just the name of the Son.

                      Now answer me: Were you baptized in the name of "Jesus" or of "Yeshua?"

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        Jesus (Yeshua) is the Son, correct? One person of the Trinity. The Father is one person of the Trinity as is the Holy Spirit. ONE GOD revealed in three distinct persons. Each person of the Trinity is fully God and yet the Father is not the Son or Holy Spirit, and the Son is not the Father or Holy Spirit . So yes, Jesus (the Son) is YHWH. And the Father is YHWH, and the Holy Spirit is YHWH. YHWH is the name of the Triune God. Not Jesus. Jesus is just the name of the Son.

                        Now answer me: Were you baptized in the name of "Jesus" or of "Yeshua?"
                        Jesus Christ is God's name. The Son speaks for God and did so in human nature, so we call Him Jesus Christ. But God is Jesus Christ, not just the Son.

                        In the Greek translation, kyrios was used to render the divine name Yahweh (יהוה‎, yhwh). Thus it became possible to transfer to Jesus statements that were attributed in the Old Testament to God.



                        Ramos, A. (2016). Jesus Christ, Titles of. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                          Jesus Christ is God's name. The Son speaks for God and did so in human nature, so we call Him Jesus Christ. But God is Jesus Christ, not just the Son.

                          In the Greek translation, kyrios was used to render the divine name Yahweh (יהוה‎, yhwh). Thus it became possible to transfer to Jesus statements that were attributed in the Old Testament to God.



                          Ramos, A. (2016). Jesus Christ, Titles of. In J. D. Barry, D. Bomar, D. R. Brown, R. Klippenstein, D. Mangum, C. Sinclair Wolcott, … W. Widder (Eds.), The Lexham Bible Dictionary. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.
                          I guess your response it to ignore what people say and simply repeat yourself. The mark of someone who knows they are defeated but are too stubborn to admit it.

                          'Jesus Christ' is not his name. Jesus is the name given to the Son after he was incarnated as a man. He had no personal name other than YHWH before the incarnation, so he could not be "Jesus" in the old testament. And again, 'Christ' is a title, not part of his name.


                          Now answer me: Were you baptized in the name of "Jesus" or of "Yeshua?"

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Dave L View Post

                            Scripture shows Jesus Christ as YHWH in the OT. If he is God, how can he not be?
                            YHVH is not only Jesus, he is also the Father and the Holy Spirit: Jesus is YHVH but not the Father nor the Holy Spirit. The only member of the Trinity to have become human is Logos, who from the time of his advent as a human was also known as Jesus, (the Lord's) anointed.
                            1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                            Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                            "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Dave L View Post
                              Jesus Christ is God's name.
                              Peter declared, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

                              Christ is his Title.

                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment

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