An interview with a former Roman Catholic

[Thoughtful Monk]

But we can still party at Cow Poke's mansion!

Nah. Cow Poke won't recognize rift-raft like us. I hear there's going to be a three-crown minimum to get into his mansion.

[Cow Poke]

First, I don't believe in Purgatory. I believe "Purgatory" is that instant/moment when our sin nature is removed from us. I don't believe it's something that takes years.

However, I think the idea is similar to saying a washer torments clothes into being clean.

I think the Bible is pretty clear that we are presented faultless to the Father, clothed in Christ's own righteousness. No need for a last minute tumble in the washer.

[mossrose]

I think the Bible is pretty clear that we are presented faultless to the Father, clothed in Christ's own righteousness. No need for a last minute tumble in the washer.

Clothed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne!

[Darfius]

I think the Bible is pretty clear that we are presented faultless to the Father, clothed in Christ's own righteousness. No need for a last minute tumble in the washer.

Purgatory is a fairytale, but "presented faultless to the Father, clothed in Christ's own righteousness" doesn't appear in the Bible either. We have to flee from traditions of men whether they come from a dude with a Dagon fish hat or a "seminary graduate".

Scripture Verse: Philippians 2

12 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

© Copyright Original Source

[Cow Poke]

Purgatory is a fairytale, but "presented faultless to the Father, clothed in Christ's own righteousness" doesn't appear in the Bible either. We have to flee from traditions of men whether they come from a dude with a Dagon fish hat or a "seminary graduate".

Scripture Verse: Philippians 2

12 Therefore, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now even more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.

© Copyright Original Source

Scripture Verse: Jude

²⁴ Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

© Copyright Original Source

[Darfius]

Scripture Verse: Jude

²⁴ Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

© Copyright Original Source

Now find the second half to match with the first and you win a prize. Otherwise you're adding stuff just like the papists.

[Cow Poke]

Now find the second half to match with the first and you win a prize. Otherwise you're adding stuff just like the papists.

workin on it!

Scripture Verse: Isaiah 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord; my soul shall be joyful in my God. For He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation; He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

© Copyright Original Source

[Darfius]

workin on it!

Scripture Verse: Isaiah 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the Lord; my soul shall be joyful in my God. For He hath clothed me with the garments of salvation; He hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

© Copyright Original Source

Notice how it switches from "he has covered me" to "as a bridegroom decks himself" and "as a bride adorns herself". Joint effort. To say nothing of the fact that your OT and NT hodgepodge still doesn't explicitly state what you did.

[Cow Poke]

Notice how it switches from "he has covered me" to "as a bridegroom decks himself" and "as a bride adorns herself". Joint effort. To say nothing of the fact that your OT and NT hodgepodge still doesn't explicitly state what you did.

Fortunately for me, it will be Christ presenting me faultless to the Father, and you'll have nothing to say about it.

[NorrinRadd]

Hebrews, which, in my opinion, is the best commentary on the Old Testament, makes it clear that Christ is the High Priest, and has done His work, and 'sat down'. Christ is clearly the Head of the Church, and I find no role in the Bible at all that supports the notion of a human "Vicar".

I believe the Church collectively constitutes the "vicar" -- earthly representative -- of Christ.

[Catholicity]

First, I'm not here to argue. But you do sound WAY different from the many many Catholics I deal with. In the area I now serve, most of the Catholics will be Hispanic, and I have never found a single one who knew that Salvation was possible "here and now". They believe "Salvation" is pretty much the property of the Church, and they can never have assurance that they "are saved".

I wonder if you have seen a lot of "folk Catholics." Inside folk Catholicism, they tend to meld a lot of superstition along with false teaching and understanding of what the Church teaches. In the last day or so I looked into it a little more. One of the concerns among "evangelical Catholics" is correction of the errors in folk Catholicism. (Which is often as Christian as Mormonism)
To be honest, I had been told stories about the Catholics in other countries and in other areas and how un-Christian they were, and realistically had what I heard been what I had seen when I visited my current parish in 2008 for the first time, I probably would have never become Catholic. But rather what I saw was a priest who totally loved the Lord with all his heart, mind, soul and strength and a congregation who was devoted to things like door to door evangelization; reading and understanding scripture and very much into growing their personal relationship with Christ and helping others in their relationship with Christ. Even my parents and grandparents and protestant friends who came to my confirmation and my daughter's baptism could see it.

[Darfius]

Fortunately for me, it will be Christ presenting me faultless to the Father, and you'll have nothing to say about it.

Christ, like His Father, cannot lie. If you're still a sinner, He won't declare otherwise.

[Catholicity]

I thought Benedict was pretty decent, too.

I was thrilled to go into the Church under Pope Benedict XVI. (now Pope Emeritus) One of the things I liked best about him was the in depth teachings he gave on Jesus.

[Catholicity]

This doesn't appear to be at all consistent with what I'm finding on official Catholic websites. Even where there are notifications of approval for publication from high ranking Catholic officials.

In no way can it be "instantaneous" when there is the need for those still living to "increase their merit".

I'm more and more convinced that your version of "Catholic" is at odds with the official teachings of the Catholic Church.

If so then all of Catholic Answers is at odds with the Church. But their tracts receive the Impramatur and Nihil Obistat (AKA what's here is consistent with the teaching of the Church) So from this tract "Myths About Indulgences" on their webpage:
Myth 5: An indulgence will shorten your time in purgatory by a fixed number of days.


The number of days which used to be attached to indulgences were references to the period of penance one might undergo during life on earth. The Catholic Church does not claim to know anything about how long or short purgatory is in general, much less in a specific person’s case.

Myths about Indulgences | Catholic Answers

[mossrose]

Christ, like His Father, cannot lie. If you're still a sinner, He won't declare otherwise.

Darfius, I am asking you to leave this thread. You are propounding your own heretical beliefs, and we have enough to deal with with the topic of the thread.