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An interview with a former Roman Catholic

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    ANY pope.
    That's a rather broad brush. The popes of Rome (Alexandria also has popes) for the first couple centuries had little influence outside the city itself, a number of popes were martyrs, and Rome didn't claim universal oversight until the 11th century.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      In the first two minutes of the actual interview, we get:

      5:30 – Gendron talks about people receiving indulgences by going to confession, which is at best a confusion of topics. He also works in a gratuitous reference to the veneration of relics, which doesn't have anything to do with indulgences either.

      6:20 – RCC began drifting into apostasy in the 4th century when Constantine established Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire? This is false; that wasn't done until Theodosius II, a century later. Then he asserts that faith was no longer required, only baptism. Anyone remotely familiar with the writings of the church fathers from that time would understand the falsity of that assertion.
      6:40 – Constantine was not the Pontificus Maximus of any church.

      Hopefully there's rather less burning of straw in the remainder, but it's not a good start.
      I did have one pastor say the worst thing that happened to Christianity was when it became legitimate. I think he has a point.

      (Sorry I missed all yesterday's discussion. I was taking an electronic detox day. I'm going to try to catch up.)
      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by mossrose View Post

        My husband was brought up in the RCC. His mother left when he and his brother were teens, but when she died when he was in his 20's, his grandparents insisted on a Catholic funeral. The appeal went out from the priest for people to donate money to the church so that they could pray for his mom's soul.

        Mr. mossy was absolutely appalled. He knew his mother was a believer, not a Catholic, and he knows that she went from this world to be in the presence of Christ according to His grace, not according to what the RCC said was the only way she could be forgiven.
        Why should he have been appalled? At worst, praying for someone who has died is harmless. You don't think it has any effect? Fine; don't do it yourself. It can, however, bring comfort to the one praying - and as far as I can tell from scripture, no one's eternal destiny is confirmed until the Final Judgment.
        It's really an awful doctrine, and indeed offers no hope in this life or the next.
        ...in your opinion.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          That's a rather broad brush. The popes of Rome (Alexandria also has popes) for the first couple centuries had little influence outside the city itself, a number of popes were martyrs, and Rome didn't claim universal oversight until the 11th century.
          OK, ANY popes today.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            That's a rather broad brush. The popes of Rome (Alexandria also has popes) for the first couple centuries had little influence outside the city itself, a number of popes were martyrs, and Rome didn't claim universal oversight until the 11th century.
            If the RCC was instituted by God, why would they wait until the 11th century to declare so?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

              I did have one pastor say the worst thing that happened to Christianity was when it became legitimate. I think he has a point.

              (Sorry I missed all yesterday's discussion. I was taking an electronic detox day. I'm going to try to catch up.)
              There is a point, in that legitimization allows people who may be less committed to the faith to join - but there will always be tares among the wheat.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Why should he have been appalled? At worst, praying for someone who has died is harmless. You don't think it has any effect? Fine; don't do it yourself. It can, however, bring comfort to the one praying - and as far as I can tell from scripture, no one's eternal destiny is confirmed until the Final Judgment.

                ...in your opinion.
                He was upset because he knew that his mother had left her Catholic roots and did not believe in all the the Catholic church is. And it was certainly no comfort to him at the time, or now.



                Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  I have a great deal of respect for John Paul II
                  I thought Benedict was pretty decent, too.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post

                    He was upset because he knew that his mother had left her Catholic roots and did not believe in all the the Catholic church is. And it was certainly no comfort to him at the time, or now.
                    It was undoubtedly a comfort to her parents, who got the funeral they wanted. It seems a bit absurd to agree to a Catholic funeral and then complain that the funeral was Catholic. If the Catholic church was such an anathema to her after she left, why agree to a funeral there at all?
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      I always thought that the RCC's doctrine of purgatory was primarily based on the the deuterocanonical II Maccabees 12:46
                      You may be right. I just seem to remember a Catholic using it as a justification. I think part of the reason may have been because it's in part of the Bible that Protestants accept.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                        I never got it. Purgatory torments people into salvation? How does that work?
                        1. If they are already saved, then why torment them?
                        2. If they are not saved, then anyone would accept salvation over torment wouldn't they? So what does that prove?
                        First, I don't believe in Purgatory. I believe "Purgatory" is that instant/moment when our sin nature is removed from us. I don't believe it's something that takes years.

                        However, I think the idea is similar to saying a washer torments clothes into being clean.
                        Last edited by Thoughtful Monk; 11-12-2021, 02:26 PM. Reason: Expanded on my idea of purgatory.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          Yeah I agree. The "burning" is a metaphor for the judging process. Only worthy works survive the judging. But everyone goes through that process before God. We are saved but we don't all get rewards (or as many as others do). I myself think I may be among those without many rewards. I feel like I don't do enough for God.
                          Me, too. The only reward I'm expecting is a participation trophy.
                          "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                          "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            It was undoubtedly a comfort to her parents, who got the funeral they wanted. It seems a bit absurd to agree to a Catholic funeral and then complain that the funeral was Catholic. If the Catholic church was such an anathema to her after she left, why agree to a funeral there at all?
                            Mr. mossy was only 25 and allowed his grandparents to plan the funeral, but he wasn't happy about it. The plea for indulgence money was particularly distasteful to him, but his grandparents didn't allow him a say in anything.

                            And it's only your opinion that praying for the dead is a comfort to anyone.


                            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                              When did the RCC start? At the Great Schism in 1054?

                              Personally, I have issues with most "formal" churches, mainly RCC and EOC, but also most Lutheran and Anglican/Episcopal. To me, they import way too much baggage from the Obsolete Covenant.
                              Wow! That's a good question.

                              You could argue a lot of dates: the founding of the church in Acts, Constantine's Edict of Toleration, the Great Schism, and probably some others. I suggest it started at the Reformation when there was something to point at and say "not Catholic." I think the Catholic Roman church as we understand it got its start at the Council of Trent, 1545 to 1563.
                              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post

                                Me, too. The only reward I'm expecting is a participation trophy.
                                But we can still party at Cow Poke's mansion!

                                Comment

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