Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream Christian churches. What are the differences between Catholics and protestants? How has the charismatic movement affected the church? Are Southern baptists different from fundamentalist baptists? It is also for discussions about the nature of the church.
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and theists. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions. Additionally, there may be some topics that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine that may be more appropriately placed within Comparative Religions 101.
Forum Rules: Here
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An interview with a former Roman Catholic
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Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIn the first two minutes of the actual interview, we get:
5:30 – Gendron talks about people receiving indulgences by going to confession, which is at best a confusion of topics. He also works in a gratuitous reference to the veneration of relics, which doesn't have anything to do with indulgences either.
6:20 – RCC began drifting into apostasy in the 4th century when Constantine established Christianity as the official religion of the Roman Empire? This is false; that wasn't done until Theodosius II, a century later. Then he asserts that faith was no longer required, only baptism. Anyone remotely familiar with the writings of the church fathers from that time would understand the falsity of that assertion.
6:40 – Constantine was not the Pontificus Maximus of any church.
Hopefully there's rather less burning of straw in the remainder, but it's not a good start.
(Sorry I missed all yesterday's discussion. I was taking an electronic detox day. I'm going to try to catch up.)"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
My husband was brought up in the RCC. His mother left when he and his brother were teens, but when she died when he was in his 20's, his grandparents insisted on a Catholic funeral. The appeal went out from the priest for people to donate money to the church so that they could pray for his mom's soul.
Mr. mossy was absolutely appalled. He knew his mother was a believer, not a Catholic, and he knows that she went from this world to be in the presence of Christ according to His grace, not according to what the RCC said was the only way she could be forgiven.
It's really an awful doctrine, and indeed offers no hope in this life or the next.
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat's a rather broad brush. The popes of Rome (Alexandria also has popes) for the first couple centuries had little influence outside the city itself, a number of popes were martyrs, and Rome didn't claim universal oversight until the 11th century.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostThat's a rather broad brush. The popes of Rome (Alexandria also has popes) for the first couple centuries had little influence outside the city itself, a number of popes were martyrs, and Rome didn't claim universal oversight until the 11th century.
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
I did have one pastor say the worst thing that happened to Christianity was when it became legitimate. I think he has a point.
(Sorry I missed all yesterday's discussion. I was taking an electronic detox day. I'm going to try to catch up.)
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostWhy should he have been appalled? At worst, praying for someone who has died is harmless. You don't think it has any effect? Fine; don't do it yourself. It can, however, bring comfort to the one praying - and as far as I can tell from scripture, no one's eternal destiny is confirmed until the Final Judgment.
...in your opinion.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI have a great deal of respect for John Paul II
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by mossrose View Post
He was upset because he knew that his mother had left her Catholic roots and did not believe in all the the Catholic church is. And it was certainly no comfort to him at the time, or now.
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI always thought that the RCC's doctrine of purgatory was primarily based on the the deuterocanonical II Maccabees 12:46"For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
I never got it. Purgatory torments people into salvation? How does that work?
1. If they are already saved, then why torment them?
2. If they are not saved, then anyone would accept salvation over torment wouldn't they? So what does that prove?
However, I think the idea is similar to saying a washer torments clothes into being clean."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Yeah I agree. The "burning" is a metaphor for the judging process. Only worthy works survive the judging. But everyone goes through that process before God. We are saved but we don't all get rewards (or as many as others do). I myself think I may be among those without many rewards. I feel like I don't do enough for God."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt was undoubtedly a comfort to her parents, who got the funeral they wanted. It seems a bit absurd to agree to a Catholic funeral and then complain that the funeral was Catholic. If the Catholic church was such an anathema to her after she left, why agree to a funeral there at all?
And it's only your opinion that praying for the dead is a comfort to anyone.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
When did the RCC start? At the Great Schism in 1054?
Personally, I have issues with most "formal" churches, mainly RCC and EOC, but also most Lutheran and Anglican/Episcopal. To me, they import way too much baggage from the Obsolete Covenant.
You could argue a lot of dates: the founding of the church in Acts, Constantine's Edict of Toleration, the Great Schism, and probably some others. I suggest it started at the Reformation when there was something to point at and say "not Catholic." I think the Catholic Roman church as we understand it got its start at the Council of Trent, 1545 to 1563."For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6
"Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom
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