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Is Mark 16:9-20 authentic?

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  • #16
    Thanks, Cowboy.
    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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    • #17
      I am sure Phat made that comment about MacArthur because he is a very strong cessationists who condemns continuationists as heretics and the variant ending of Mark could be interpreted as charismatic.
      Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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      • #18
        Oh, thanks, Pentecost, that's interesting.
        βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
        ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

        אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
          I am sure Phat made that comment about MacArthur because he is a very strong cessationists who condemns continuationists as heretics and the variant ending of Mark could be interpreted as charismatic.
          I think that's the first time I've ever seen "continuationists" as a word.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #20
            An article on the authenticity Mark 16:9-20 can be found in Appendix E of The Identity of the New Testament Text III.
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • #21
              Well CP, I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet in regards to Pentecostal theology, and of obvious note are the various doctrines about the Baptism of the Holy Spirit or lack thereof, so I try to be careful about saying continuationist as a blanket term rather than charismatic because then someone may think I'm referring specifically to the Charismatic Movement, rather like the difference between catholics and Catholics, the uppercase are members of the lowercase but not necessarily the other way around. Or such is the distinction I've seen in the books I've read on the subject.
              Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

              Comment


              • #22
                Textual evidence for the ending of mark

                As a supplement to and expansion of what has been said by Robrecht and One Bad Pig immediately following the OP above, consider the appended note with which R. T. France concludes his New International Greek Testament Commentary on The Gospel of Mark (Eerdmans, 2002), pages 685-688:
                The purpose of this note is not to argue again for the virtually unanimous verdict of modern textual scholarship, that the authentic text of Mark available to us ends at 16:8, but rather to set out as simply and clearly as possible (which inevitably will mean some oversimplification) the data which have contributed to that consensus.

                A. Textual Evidence

                1. The text ends at 16:8 in the major fourth-century codices א and B and in a number of manuscripts of versions, notably the fourth-century Sinaitic Syriac. Clement of Alexander and Origin do not appear to have known any text beyond verse 8, and Eusebius and Jerome both state that the traditional Longer Ending (verses 9-20) was not found in the majority of Greek manuscripts available to them. The earliest form of the Eusebian canons (deriving from Ammonius, early third century) made no provision for readings in Mark beyond 16:8.

                2. OL Codex Bobbiensis omits the last six words of verse 8 and goes on instead not with verses 9-20 but with the Shorter Ending which briefly reports (in thirty-four words) how the women took the news to the disciples and how Jesus then sent out by them to all the world 'the holy and immortal proclamation of eternal salvation. Amen'. It includes no account of a resurrection appearance of Jesus, though this is no doubt implied by the statement that αὐτός ὁ Ἰησοῦς sent out the gospel proclamation (and a few manuscripts add ἐθάνη).

                3. Without amending verse 8, two seventh-century fragments (099, 0112), two eighth-century manuscripts (L and Ψ), and a few later uncials use the same Shorter Ending, but then follow it also with some or all of the Longer Ending. The same is found in a few Coptic and Ethiopic manuscripts and in the margin of the Harcleian Syriac (the main text of which has only the Longer Ending.

                4. A number of later minuscule manuscripts (f1 22 etc.) give the Longer Ending but mark it off with marginal signs or comments to indicate that its textual status is doubtful.

                5. The remaining manuscripts and versions (which are of course the vast majority, but on the whole are later than those mentioned above) contain the Longer Ending (verses 9-20), continuing after verse 8 without comment. It is known at least as early as Tatian and Irenaeus in the latter part of the second century.

                6. The fifth century codex W, one of the earliest manuscripts to have the Longer Ending, has a substantial addition of eighty-nine words (the 'Freer logion" at the beginning of verse 15, described by B. M. Metzger as having on 'obvious and pervasive apocryphal flavour', which consists of a dialogue between Jesus and his disciples concerning the ending of the period of Satan's power and the truth and righteousness now made available though Christ's death. Jerome records the same additional words and says they were found in some Greek manuscripts.

                To be continued in a subsequent post...

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                • #23
                  The majority of manuscripts have Mark 16:9-20. The vast majority. Only a very few of manuscripts omit it. Read that PDF I linked to.
                  . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                  . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                  Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    The majority of manuscripts have Mark 16:9-20. The vast majority. Only a very few of manuscripts omit it. Read that PDF I linked to.
                    I looked at the PDF, which is an APPENDIX to "something". Might we know the author, and his background? (my apologies if I missed that in the text)
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      The majority of manuscripts have Mark 16:9-20. The vast majority. Only a very few of manuscripts omit it. Read that PDF I linked to.
                      The "vast majority" of the 12 spies checking out the Promised Land said, in effect, "we're doomed, we'll all be killed". VERY FEW of the spies -- only 2 -- said it was a "go". (Their names are the only ones most people remember)
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        ... continued from post #22:
                        B. Literary Considerations

                        1. Most of the content of the Longer Ending (verses 9-20) echoes, usually in abbreviated form, elements of the stories of Matthew, Luke, and John, as follows:

                        verse 9 Appearance to Mary of Magdala Jn. 20:11-17 (with Lk. 8:1)
                        verse 10 Mary of Magdala as messenger Jn. 20:18
                        verses 11, 13 Disciples' unbelief Lk. 24: 11, 41
                        verses 12-13 Walk to Emmaus Lk. 24:13-35
                        verse 14 Appearance to the eleven Lk. 24:36-49; Jn. 20:19-23
                        verse 14 Rebuke of unbelief Jn. 20:24-29[?]
                        verse 15 Evangelistic commission Mt. 28:19; Lk. 24:47
                        verse 19 Ascension Lk. 24:50-51 (together with the 'sitting at the right hand' theology of Hebrews etc.)

                        The parts of the Longer Ending not accounted for in this list are those which go beyond the resurrection appearances as such to describe the subsequent preaching and activity of the church. Thus in verse 16 we have a summary of a basic baptismal soteriology, which has the flavour of Johannine dualism (and possibly draws on the baptism element in Mt. 28:19-20), in verses 17-18 some of the 'signs' which are related in Acts are summarized, and verse 20 is virtually a summary of the whole book of Acts in a nutshell. In the whole of the Longer Ending the only element which is not easily accounted for on the basis of familiarity with the other gospels and Acts is the emphasis in verse 18 on handling poisonous snakes and drinking poison: the former perhaps reflects the single instance of (involuntary) snake-handling in Acts 28:3-6, but the expectation of these two activities as regular 'signs' is the one distinctive contribution which the Longer Ending makes. In all other respects verses 9-20 have something of a 'secondhand' flavour, and look like a pastiche of elements drawn from the other gospels and Acts.

                        2. It is hard to characterize the style of the Longer Ending as a whole since it is such a mixture of elements from other sources, but it certainly reads very differently from Mark's lively and expansive narrative, and contains a notable concentration of words not used elsewhere in Mark. In particular, both verse 20 and the main part of the Shorter Ending read more like pious committee summaries of the post-Easter task and experiences of the church than like the way Mark writes in his gospel.

                        3. Neither ending follows naturally after verse 8 since both contradict its closing statement (unless the last six words of verse 8 are omitted, as in Codex Bobbiensis but nowhere else). The Longer Ending has further problems in that verse 9 begins with Jesus as subject yet without naming him, when the subject of verse 8 was the women and Jesus was not present in the preceding scene, and goes on to introduce Mary of Magdala as if she had not already been mentioned in 15:40, 47 and 16:1.

                        For these reasons, the almost unanimous conclusion of modern scholarship is that both the Shorter and Longer Endings, in their different ways, represent well-meaning attempts, probably sometime in the second century, to fill the perceived gap left by the 'unfinished' ending at 16:8, in the case of the Longer Ending by drawing eclectically on what had by then become the familiar traditions of the post-apostolic church, and that these endings, particularly the longer, established themselves in general usage so that by the fourth century they appeared in many manuscripts, though by no means yet all (so Eusebius and Jerome). As time went on, the text concluding at 16:8 was increasingly forgotten, and virtually all later manuscripts included one (or occasionally both) of the endings. This is an intelligible historical process which accounts as economically as possible for the various data above.
                        Last edited by John Reece; 02-13-2014, 12:19 PM.

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                        • #27
                          In my opinion, it is significant that Origen and Clement (both of Alexandria) do not refer to it, since traditionally the author of Mark founded the church there.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            In my opinion, it is significant that Origen and Clement (both of Alexandria) do not refer to it, since traditionally the author of Mark founded the church there.
                            Does this mean that they affirmatively stated that they did not consider it authentic, or rather than none of their extant writings refer to anything in the passage?
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              Does this mean that they affirmatively stated that they did not consider it authentic, or rather than none of their extant writings refer to anything in the passage?
                              The latter.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I looked at the PDF, which is an APPENDIX to "something". Might we know the author, and his background? (my apologies if I missed that in the text)
                                My apologies, here, I failed to note the authors name was not with that section of his book.
                                Dr. Wilbur N. Pickering http://www.walkinhiscommandments.com/

                                http://www.walkinhiscommandments.com/pickering10.htm



                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                The "vast majority" of the 12 spies checking out the Promised Land said, in effect, "we're doomed, we'll all be killed". VERY FEW of the spies -- only 2 -- said it was a "go". (Their names are the only ones most people remember)
                                Not a valid argument. Since the non variant New Testament text, as a whole, constitutes the majority text as well.
                                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                                Comment

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