Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Charismatic movements.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Charismatic movements.

    I don't know if I have actually made a thread on this but I have certainly been vocal about it. As a teenager I was involved with the Charismatic movement. I went to a conference specifically designed to experience the Holy Spirit run by the vineyard church movement. Everything was designed and set up for people to look for signs and wonders and there were a lot of people praying in tongues. One was supposed to fall down when prayed for but now that I look back I cannot recollect if I was just sleep deprived euphoric from the type of odd depression I have or if it was real. When I came home expecting miracles and elated I cried for days because life was still a wreck. Over the next years I attended youth groups prayer meetings and retreats. I thought perhaps at times I could feel the Spirit move and was more than emotional in these moments.... But I also found out that not doing certain things like witnessing constantly ( I was uncomfortable to speak). Praying in tongues was expected as was daily bible reading and not disagreeing with the purity culture. We were expected too feel God and if we didn't we were taught that we were not walking with Jesus. Later in another group we were taught not to be unhappy and mental illness or sin was a sign of failing Jesus. We were taught to be positive in a sorrowful life never grieve or worry and push away any doubt or question and claim only joy. I fell far behind. Eventually I left Charismatic Christianity all together. I have seen God work but I need not feel anything and would rather not really. I believe in God but the idea of finding him believing or experiencing God on an emotional level is something that frightens me. I would be more apt to chalk it up to my depressive disorder. I realize that my experience is based on personal life and since I have come to believe that all Christians have been given gifts of the holy spirit but the greatest is to Love one another.
    My question for someone would be what evidence is there for if any the charismatic movement and how is one so certain that it is different than the gifts we obtain in becoming a Christian.
    A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
    George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
    I don't know if I have actually made a thread on this but I have certainly been vocal about it. As a teenager I was involved with the Charismatic movement. I went to a conference specifically designed to experience the Holy Spirit run by the vineyard church movement. Everything was designed and set up for people to look for signs and wonders and there were a lot of people praying in tongues. One was supposed to fall down when prayed for but now that I look back I cannot recollect if I was just sleep deprived euphoric from the type of odd depression I have or if it was real. When I came home expecting miracles and elated I cried for days because life was still a wreck. Over the next years I attended youth groups prayer meetings and retreats. I thought perhaps at times I could feel the Spirit move and was more than emotional in these moments.... But I also found out that not doing certain things like witnessing constantly ( I was uncomfortable to speak). Praying in tongues was expected as was daily bible reading and not disagreeing with the purity culture. We were expected too feel God and if we didn't we were taught that we were not walking with Jesus. Later in another group we were taught not to be unhappy and mental illness or sin was a sign of failing Jesus. We were taught to be positive in a sorrowful life never grieve or worry and push away any doubt or question and claim only joy. I fell far behind. Eventually I left Charismatic Christianity all together. I have seen God work but I need not feel anything and would rather not really. I believe in God but the idea of finding him believing or experiencing God on an emotional level is something that frightens me. I would be more apt to chalk it up to my depressive disorder. I realize that my experience is based on personal life and since I have come to believe that all Christians have been given gifts of the holy spirit but the greatest is to Love one another.
    My question for someone would be what evidence is there for if any the charismatic movement and how is one so certain that it is different than the gifts we obtain in becoming a Christian.
    Could you possible reword your question Cath? exactly what you're asking for isn't too clear for me.
    "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
    -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

    Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
    1 Corinthians 16:13

    "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
    -Ben Witherington III

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Raphael View Post
      Could you possibly reword your question Cath? exactly what you're asking for isn't too clear for me.
      fify

      I think Leonhard is starting to rub off on you.
      ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raphael View Post
        Could you possible reword your question Cath? exactly what you're asking for isn't too clear for me.
        I think she's asking about their validity - possibly whether or not they are orthodox?

        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          I think she's asking about their validity - possibly whether or not they are orthodox?
          The Oneness Pentecostals, no they're not orthodox (as they don't believe in the Trinity). The rest of us Charismatics I would say on the whole are (you get your special peanuts, but they're outliers).
          "If you can ever make any major religion look absolutely ludicrous, chances are you haven't understood it"
          -Ravi Zacharias, The New Age: A foreign bird with a local walk

          Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
          1 Corinthians 16:13

          "...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
          -Ben Witherington III

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raphael View Post
            The Oneness Pentecostals, no they're not orthodox (as they don't believe in the Trinity). The rest of us Charismatics I would say on the whole are (you get your special peanuts, but they're outliers).
            I am asking what evidence there is to suggest validity of the Charismatic movement and if indeed it is valid how is it different from your average church down the street that believes they are spirit filled but does not practice things such as tongues or prophecy and rather emphasizes more of a standard worship format.
            A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
            George Bernard Shaw

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
              I am asking what evidence there is to suggest validity of the Charismatic movement and if indeed it is valid how is it different from your average church down the street that believes they are spirit filled but does not practice things such as tongues or prophecy and rather emphasizes more of a standard worship format.
              As a practicing Charismatic, it seems to me you're asking why the ears can't be like the eyes? We are all the body of Christ after all.

              But, to try to answer more fully what I think you are asking, I think the Charismatic movement came about as a response to the "Enlightenment Age" that saw more pragmatic, sedate type of faith that spawned the cessionist movement...i.e.

              Source: 1 Corinthians 13:9,10

              9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away "

              © Copyright Original Source



              As someone who was raised in the Southern Baptist denomination of the 60's & 70's, speaking in tongues and "all that other nonsense" were just wrong and maybe even "Of the Devil"...until God showed me different. A plain reading of scripture tells us that Paul expected Prophecy and Tongues to be a normal part of worship. (See 1 Corinthians 14) So to us, we are just returning to what is expected in a worship service.
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                As a practicing Charismatic, it seems to me you're asking why the ears can't be like the eyes?
                This, coming from a guy who calls himself Little Toe.



                oh, wait... that's JOE?


                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                  I am asking what evidence there is to suggest validity of the Charismatic movement and if indeed it is valid how is it different from your average church down the street that believes they are spirit filled but does not practice things such as tongues or prophecy and rather emphasizes more of a standard worship format.
                  One of the greatest difficulties about the charismatic movement is that it encourages those who are only in it for the feelings and emotions. Several Assembly of God pastor friends of mine tell me one of the toughest things in their pastoral duties is to sort out the "nuts" without dampening what the Holy Spirit is doing. That takes quite a bit of discernment sometimes. When worship becomes "all about me", it's obviously not "true worship and undefiled".

                  I've seen well intentioned people get sucked into the extremes (in my opinion) of the charismatic movement like demanding that if you don't speak in tongues you're not saved. Tongues is only one of the gifts that the Holy Spirit gives "as He will".

                  It's all about Jesus. (I'm a borderline Bapticostal)
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    One of the greatest difficulties about the charismatic movement is that it encourages those who are only in it for the feelings and emotions. Several Assembly of God pastor friends of mine tell me one of the toughest things in their pastoral duties is to sort out the "nuts" without dampening what the Holy Spirit is doing. That takes quite a bit of discernment sometimes. When worship becomes "all about me", it's obviously not "true worship and undefiled".

                    I've seen well intentioned people get sucked into the extremes (in my opinion) of the charismatic movement like demanding that if you don't speak in tongues you're not saved. Tongues is only one of the gifts that the Holy Spirit gives "as He will".

                    It's all about Jesus. (I'm a borderline Bapticostal)
                    And honestly...the experience Catholicity describes is on the extreme end of the line...if you were come to my Assemblies of God church on any given Sunday, you would be hard pressed to distinguish it from say...your church CP.
                    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
                      And honestly...the experience Catholicity describes is on the extreme end of the line...if you were come to my Assemblies of God church on any given Sunday, you would be hard pressed to distinguish it from say...your church CP.
                      My wife and I visited an Assembly Church once when we were on vacation, and it was right near the hotel where we stayed. I was very pleasantly surprised to notice that I didn't notice anything majorly different about their Sunday Morning Worship.

                      I talked to the Pastor afterward, and he smiled and said, "come back tonight - we're a little different on Sunday nights".
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        My wife and I visited an Assembly Church once when we were on vacation, and it was right near the hotel where we stayed. I was very pleasantly surprised to notice that I didn't notice anything majorly different about their Sunday Morning Worship.

                        I talked to the Pastor afterward, and he smiled and said, "come back tonight - we're a little different on Sunday nights".
                        Did you go?
                        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                        George Bernard Shaw

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                          Did you go?
                          We were already checked out of the hotel, and on the next leg of our journey, but I would have liked to.

                          He just explained that it's less formal on Sunday Nights, and the people knew they had more liberty.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            On a slight aside:

                            If God wanted me to speak in tongues I am confident He could allow me to do so. The fact is I asked early in my Christian walk for the sort of evidence that "tongues" is. I did not receive it. I assume that it is God's will. The same goes for prophecy. Prophecy must come from God, not from the desire of the "prophet." I have a very low level of respect for faith based only on feelings. In my mind feelings must follow, not lead.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                              On a slight aside:

                              If God wanted me to speak in tongues I am confident He could allow me to do so. The fact is I asked early in my Christian walk for the sort of evidence that "tongues" is. I did not receive it. I assume that it is God's will. The same goes for prophecy. Prophecy must come from God, not from the desire of the "prophet." I have a very low level of respect for faith based only on feelings. In my mind feelings must follow, not lead.
                              How do we square the type of thinking that says: "I prayed to God, and didn't get it, God musta not wanted me to have it", with a passage like Luke 18:1-8 (the parable of the widow and the judge)? I ask this as someone who questions my own use of tongues in the past, and who has mixed feelings on the type of tongues and prophecy I see in many charismatic churches.

                              Is it possible that you could have received this gift, but gave up your request before God granted it? Is it possible that you lacked faith in the things you asked, or that you asked for it with the wrong heart?

                              I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm asking these questions, because I sincerely don't know, and am wondering about the possibility.

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Ana Dragule, 11-13-2020, 01:47 AM
                              2 responses
                              33 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post seanD
                              by seanD
                               
                              Started by Thoughtful Monk, 11-11-2020, 03:18 PM
                              5 responses
                              51 views
                              1 like
                              Last Post Christian3  
                              Started by mossrose, 11-08-2020, 03:50 PM
                              1 response
                              29 views
                              5 likes
                              Last Post Sparko
                              by Sparko
                               
                              Started by Faber, 11-06-2020, 11:51 AM
                              1 response
                              5 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Faber
                              by Faber
                               
                              Started by DesertBerean, 11-02-2020, 02:57 PM
                              Working...
                              X