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Should Christians remarry after divorce?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by deranger View Post
    Scripture references if you have them? Not doubting they exist, just want them for personal perusal.
    Matthew 5:32
    But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (NIV)
    Matthew 19:9
    I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. (NIV)
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      Er, what? Calling it "redundant" makes absolutely no sense. Perhaps you were aiming for another word? And I'm not sure where scripture says anything about desertion making remarriage okay. I know you're going to be biased toward allowing remarriage here, but scripture doesn't allow much leeway AFAICS. In fact, contra Bill, Paul is legitimizing state marriage with his advice here by encouraging people not to divorce.
      I did mean "redundant" but didn't explain it well at all. It was an implication David Instone-Brewer came up with in his Divorce and Remarriage in the Church. He writes of the common modern day evangelical interpretation that 1 Cor 7:15 refers to living apart but not divorcing or divorcing without the ability to remarry: "Both these interpretations would have sounded like nonsense to a first-century reader because Paul was speaking to people who were already divorced, so they had no choice in the matter. It was no good telling them they could live apart, because this was already forced on them, and it was no good telling them they could get divorced, because as far as Roman law was concerned they already were divorced." He goes on to note that Paul actually quotes a Roman divorce certificate with his "not enslaved" wording because it was a direct reference to a legal freedom to marry.

      And, yes, I will of course have a personal bias, but I did do a fairly extensive study for a few months on the subject to ensure that I would be in the clear, so it is at the least something I've thought over carefully.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #18
        Ehh. speaking to my own case, where I had an abusive non believing husband who made multiple requests for a divorce, he made it more than clear he wanted nothing to do with his child, and proceeded to have numerous affairs, I'm quite certain my marriage was not just illegitimate (it was more of a shot-gun type anyway) I was more than free to remarry after I left it. I'm a bit biased myself, but I'm quite certain that vows are meaningless if one party has no intention of keeping them or appears to not understand them anyway.
        A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
        George Bernard Shaw

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
          Matthew 5:32
          But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery. (NIV)
          Matthew 19:9
          I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery. (NIV)
          But you might as well say that these are the only ways to commit adultery, as to say that these are the only ways to marry and commit adultery.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
            Ehh. speaking to my own case, where I had an abusive non believing husband who made multiple requests for a divorce, he made it more than clear he wanted nothing to do with his child, and proceeded to have numerous affairs, I'm quite certain my marriage was not just illegitimate (it was more of a shot-gun type anyway) I was more than free to remarry after I left it. I'm a bit biased myself, but I'm quite certain that vows are meaningless if one party has no intention of keeping them or appears to not understand them anyway.
            Didn't Paul say that if the nonbeliever wanted to divorce, it would be fine?
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              Didn't Paul say that if the nonbeliever wanted to divorce, it would be fine?
              I think he said the wife was no longer bound to him yes.
              A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
              George Bernard Shaw

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                But you might as well say that these are the only ways to commit adultery, as to say that these are the only ways to marry and commit adultery.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                I wonder if adultery to God, such as becoming an idol-worshiper, could be extended here. Or if it is strictly limited to physical sex. Since the term seems to also be used for the Harlot of Babylon in relation to unfaithfulness to God:

                Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  I did mean "redundant" but didn't explain it well at all. It was an implication David Instone-Brewer came up with in his Divorce and Remarriage in the Church. He writes of the common modern day evangelical interpretation that 1 Cor 7:15 refers to living apart but not divorcing or divorcing without the ability to remarry: "Both these interpretations would have sounded like nonsense to a first-century reader because Paul was speaking to people who were already divorced, so they had no choice in the matter. It was no good telling them they could live apart, because this was already forced on them, and it was no good telling them they could get divorced, because as far as Roman law was concerned they already were divorced." He goes on to note that Paul actually quotes a Roman divorce certificate with his "not enslaved" wording because it was a direct reference to a legal freedom to marry.
                  I'm still not seeing how that refers to remarriage. As far as I can see, Paul was giving them peace of mind regarding divorce initiated by the non-believing spouse, not allowing remarriage; the only time Paul refers to remarriage is in the case of widows. I think a case can be made for remarriage being permissible in that instance, but it's not quite that straightforward.
                  And, yes, I will of course have a personal bias, but I did do a fairly extensive study for a few months on the subject to ensure that I would be in the clear, so it is at the least something I've thought over carefully.
                  Of that I had no doubt.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I agree that as a Christian the IDEAL is to not get a divorce...however there is a LOT of circumstances which can lead to divorce. By lumping all divorces into one category are we not then judging another persons heart and their relationship with God which is also a sin? sure if someone is committing adultery and divorces their wife to take up with the other women we have a right to say they have done the wrong thing, however not all divorce is that black and white.
                    So I would have to say does God forgive our sins if we ask him? so if someone remarries and asks forgiveness are they then not forgiven? I would have to point out the women caught in adultery and Jesus asking who here has not sinned they can cast the first stone.
                    So should someone who has divorced and remarried be judged by us at all? shouldn't we be loving them and asking God to restore them to him instead of wanting to stone them?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      I'm still not seeing how that refers to remarriage. As far as I can see, Paul was giving them peace of mind regarding divorce initiated by the non-believing spouse, not allowing remarriage; the only time Paul refers to remarriage is in the case of widows. I think a case can be made for remarriage being permissible in that instance, but it's not quite that straightforward.
                      Yes, it's certainly not as straightforward as modern interpreters would help, which is why I do not think a remarriage argument from this passage could be stated as anything stronger than an inference. I still think the reading of it as giving one a peace of mind over having been abandoned against their will seems strange to me, but it very well could have been a genuine concern for those in Corinth.


                      Originally posted by Luv1another View Post
                      I agree that as a Christian the IDEAL is to not get a divorce...however there is a LOT of circumstances which can lead to divorce. By lumping all divorces into one category are we not then judging another persons heart and their relationship with God which is also a sin? sure if someone is committing adultery and divorces their wife to take up with the other women we have a right to say they have done the wrong thing, however not all divorce is that black and white.
                      So I would have to say does God forgive our sins if we ask him? so if someone remarries and asks forgiveness are they then not forgiven? I would have to point out the women caught in adultery and Jesus asking who here has not sinned they can cast the first stone.
                      So should someone who has divorced and remarried be judged by us at all? shouldn't we be loving them and asking God to restore them to him instead of wanting to stone them?
                      Nobody is arguing that people who divorce improperly and repent are unforgiven. (I also am not an advocate of forcing divorces in these cases. Craig Keener points out that remarriage was so common in the first century Roman Empire if the early Christians were teaching that people must divorce their second partners, something so subversive surely would have been noted.) I also don't think that we can glibly ignore every single case of remarriage. To use an obvious example, if somebody had an affair, got divorced, then married the person with whom they were having the affair, it is certainly fair to pass judgment in that case (compare 1 Corinthians 5:3 for an example of Paul passing judgment on somebody committing a flagrant sin).
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                        I wonder if adultery to God, such as becoming an idol-worshiper, could be extended here. Or if it is strictly limited to physical sex. Since the term seems to also be used for the Harlot of Babylon in relation to unfaithfulness to God:
                        God does describe himself as divorcing an unfaithful wife--and also calling her back again.

                        "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband." (Jer. 3:14)

                        Note here, that even after divorce for unfaithfulness, God does not say "I was your husband". The covenant bond, the marriage bond depicted here, evidently, still holds.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        Last edited by lee_merrill; 02-10-2014, 10:50 PM. Reason: Additional thought
                        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          God does describe himself as divorcing an unfaithful wife--and also calling her back again.

                          "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband." (Jer. 3:14)

                          Note here, that even after divorce for unfaithfulness, God does not say "I was your husband". The covenant bond, the marriage bond depicted here, evidently, still holds.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          Perhaps those churches who exclude all past divorcees from holding church office should keep this metaphor in mind.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            Perhaps those churches who exclude all past divorcees from holding church office should keep this metaphor in mind.
                            Indeed!
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              God does describe himself as divorcing an unfaithful wife--and also calling her back again.

                              "Return, faithless people," declares the Lord, "for I am your husband." (Jer. 3:14)

                              Note here, that even after divorce for unfaithfulness, God does not say "I was your husband". The covenant bond, the marriage bond depicted here, evidently, still holds.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              Er, two things: One, you neglected to provide support for your contention that God divorced the 'unfaithful wife.' Two, if the marriage bond with the 'unfaithful wife' still holds, then remarriage (to someone else) is illegitimate even in cases of adultery.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                                Er, two things: One, you neglected to provide support for your contention that God divorced the 'unfaithful wife.'
                                Well, from the same chapter: "I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries." (Jer 3:8) See also Jer. 3:1, Isa. 50:1.

                                Two, if the marriage bond with the 'unfaithful wife' still holds, then remarriage (to someone else) is illegitimate even in cases of adultery.
                                I do need you to address how God says he is still Israel's husband. But yes, how else would remarriage be adultery if not because the original union is in some real sense, still in effect?

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                                Comment

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