Allowing anger

[Christianbookworm]

Personality disorders are sad/scary. I was a psychology major in undergrad. Maybe they thought her disorder was a good reason for you to not be angry at her because she was sick/'crazy' and thus not her fault. Not saying they were right, just speculating on why they would have told you that.

[RBerman]

Actually, "Is it okay to be angry?" is still the question I need to answer. I'm trying to do cognitive behavior therapy here. Consciously, on an intellectual level, I can tell you that I'm angry but repressing it, that I ought to let it out and then forgive, etc. Subconsciously, on an emotional level, I keep repressing the anger before I even consciously become angry. I wake up in the morning hating myself without knowing why and I have to work to get to the point of realizing I'm angry. CBT is a way of rewiring the "automatic thoughts" that my subconsciousness has that cause me to hate myself and repress the anger. I have to convince myself on an emotional level that it's okay to be angry -- I have to counter the thoughts that say I'm a bad daughter, etc. if I'm angry with my mother. I can't progress with forgiveness when I'm having trouble allowing myself to feel angry and hurt and get at the specifics of what I need to forgive.

I couldn't say that it's "okay to be angry," but the reason I said that's not the right question is that "not being angry" is not an option for you at the moment; your only two options are conscious anger and unconscious anger. You have been wounded, and as you've seen it's not going to be as simple as just "don't be angry." If you're asking whether conscious or subconscious anger is worse, I'd say the latter, since there's less likelihood that it will change as long as it's being suppressed. Romans 1 talks about how the default mode of humans is to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." I think it's good for you to admit the anger is there, and that it probably makes you prickly in ways that you don't realize, but hopefully you have supportive friends, family, and church leadership who are with you for the long haul.

[Kind Debater]

Maybe they thought her disorder was a good reason for you to not be angry at her because she was sick/'crazy' and thus not her fault. Not saying they were right, just speculating on why they would have told you that.

My parents and I had no idea my mom had BPD until I learned about it a few years ago. During their marriage, my dad took the approach that she had emotional issues because of her abusive childhood (which was true, her mom very likely has BPD and was very abusive) and that he and I needed to be understanding and sympathetic and hope that she would just get better if we were loving, kind, patient, etc. As a child I knew something was wrong with that -- I knew that she was doing things that were wrong, but no one was addressing the fact that her behavior was wrong -- but it wasn't until I read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud that anyone told me that I was right.

[Christianbookworm]

That makes sense. Psychology hasn't really been around that long and we are still learning about how our minds/brains work.

[The Remonstrant]

It's "okay" to be angry at all times at everyone and everything.

But it's quite miserable.

[princesa]

Sorry about your situation. I've held grudges for various reasons that lasted for years and some I still have. The other person doesn't care so I'm only hurting myself with this pride (In my case, holding this grudge is prideful). RBermans #6 Post is worth a re-read, it is excellent.

[The Remonstrant]

I encourage anger when appropriate. Anger at grave injustice can be a reflection of God's character. The problem is that we are likely to go over the top when we get peeved. This is likely why James admonishes his audience to be slow to anger. Repression or suppression of anger cannot be good, however, and I believe the individual who started the thread recognizes this. It really is a matter of processing and dealing with anger, then, for when anger is left undealt with, it will only fester and grow worse.

What bothers me is how we we often add insult to injury by forcing the forgiveness issue almost immediately when someone has been wronged. Yes, yes, yes, of course we are to encourage and exhort each other to forgive the "injurer", but it is all the more difficult to forgive when the one who has inflicted the wounds is completely unrepentant. (Note: some of these persons are sociopaths.) There is no room for closure in such cases. The church (i.e., persons reconciled to God through Christ) can unwittingly work on the abuser's behalf by impatiently demanding instant forgiveness much like instant coffee. Humans are not automatons (though perhaps some would beg to differ). I believe it is helpful to view forgiveness as both a decision and a process. Unfortunately, we tend to focus on the decision to forgive more than the difficulty of processing our pains. Healing rarely occurs overnight. The consequences of another person's perverse behavior can leave an aftermath of pain. Genuine forgiveness for serious injuries incurred is never easy, especially when the other party simply doesn't care and is unconcerned with making reparations. We wonder if we even have the remotest desire to forgive. We may not. It is helpful for us to be honest with ourselves as well as with God. We can play little religious games with ourselves and try to take God along with us in the game, but it's all nonsense, my friend. There's nothing we can say that will surprise God. He already knows.

In short, I encourage healing and forgiveness. The catch is this: one cannot take place without the other. Forgiveness is indeed difficult, but it's the only way forward. What is our motivation to forgive? Is it because we are afraid we'll burn in "hell" forever? Perhaps we won't forgive because we hope the persons who have wronged us will themselves burn. I believe we can resonate with Jonah quite easily. Why would we want mercy to be extended to our enemies? Sometimes we prefer hating. It's so much easier. The journey toward the cross is difficult. It may entail us forgiving some scumbag that never repents. That scumbag may be you or I. Who knows? On the cross, we see a God who is willing to forgive unrepentant sinners and refuses to retaliate (Luke 23:34a).

For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (1 Peter 2:21-23 ESV)

[phat8594]

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan...=bait+of+satan

Can we reframe the question? It's not productive to ask yourself whether it's "OK to be angry" on the way to forgiving your mother. The reality is that you are angry, which is why stuffing the anger only makes things worse. You are angry, and you want to be forgiving. That shows that you are moving in the right direction. Whatever heinous things she may have done, the path forward with you is to strengthen your own faith, to understand your own sin, to comprehend the depth of the forgiveness that God offers in Christ, setting aside his own anger over the terrible offenses you have done against him. That's the kind of maturity toward which we strive, the kind that allows Nate Saint's son to work with the tribesmen who murdered his father. It will probably start with things much smaller than forgiving your mother. How do you respond when people cut you off in traffic? When the lady in front of you in the grocery store line spends five minutes fishing in her voluminous purse for the right credit card? When someone makes an insensitive comment about the way you look today? Forgiveness is a habit that spills over into all areas of life, and pursuing it is non-optional for all Christians.

Its posts like these that make me miss the 'Amen' button.

In any case, I suggest reading the book The Bait of Satan by John Bevere, its a very good book with a very practical application. I truly believe the church would be a better place if more people read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan...=bait+of+satan

[The Remonstrant]

In any case, I suggest reading the book The Bait of Satan by John Bevere, its a very good book with a very practical application. I truly believe the church would be a better place if more people read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan...=bait+of+satan

Grrr...

Recommending a Charismatic book...

This makes me angry.

[princesa]

Remonstrants post #22 is so on point and insightful. Worth a careful read, such wise and helpful
posts are what I value and missed most here.

I've become a cheerleader on this thread.

[Catholicity]

My parents and I had no idea my mom had BPD until I learned about it a few years ago. During their marriage, my dad took the approach that she had emotional issues because of her abusive childhood (which was true, her mom very likely has BPD and was very abusive) and that he and I needed to be understanding and sympathetic and hope that she would just get better if we were loving, kind, patient, etc. As a child I knew something was wrong with that -- I knew that she was doing things that were wrong, but no one was addressing the fact that her behavior was wrong -- but it wasn't until I read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud that anyone told me that I was right.

My ex-husband had two mental illnesses. However 2 psychologists, and his own psychiatrists told me: as well as a couple of professional books (e.g. textbooks) "A mental illness is never an excuse for bad behavior" He was abusive. But he refused to help himself. His illnesses may have explained his behavior, but his refusal to get treatment, even though it was offered, was his own problem. Hence I had every right to be angry at him.

[phat8594]

Grrr...

Recommending a Charismatic book...

This makes me angry.

And why would that make you angry?


Have you ever read the book??

[The Remonstrant]

Remonstrants post #22 is so on point and insightful. Worth a careful read, such wise and helpful
posts are what I value and missed most here.

I've become a cheerleader on this thread.

Many thanks, princesa.

Also, it's good to see you again, my friend.

[princesa]

Many thanks, princesa.

Also, it's good to see you again, my friend.

Impressive use of commas.

[The Remonstrant]

Impressive use of commas.

Always she patronizes me.