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A POLITE Discussion about Singing Angels

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
    From the Te Deum:

    Te Deum laudámus: te Dominum confitémur.
    Te ætérnum Patrem omnis terra venerátur.
    Tibi omnes Angeli; tibi coeli et univérsae potestátes.
    Tibi Cherúbim et Séraphim incessábili voce proclámant:
    Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus, Dóminus Deus Sábaoth.
    Pleni sunt coeli et terra majestátis glóriæ tuæ.
    Te glóriosus Apostolórum chorus;
    Te Prophetárum laudábilis númerus;
    Te Mártyrum candidátus laudat exércitus.
    Te per orbem terrárum sancta confitétur Ecclésia:
    Patrem imménsæ majestátis; Venerándum tuum verum et únicum Fílium;
    Sanctum quoque Paráclitum Spíritum...

    Book of Common Prayer translation:

    We praise thee, O God :
    we acknowledge thee to be the Lord.
    All the earth doth worship thee :
    the Father everlasting.
    To thee all Angels cry aloud :
    the Heavens, and all the Powers therein.
    To thee Cherubim and Seraphim :
    continually do cry,
    Holy, Holy, Holy :
    Lord God of Hosts;
    Heaven and earth are full of the Majesty :
    of thy glory.
    The glorious company of the Apostles : praise thee.
    The goodly fellowship of the Prophets : praise thee.
    The noble army of Martyrs : praise thee.
    The holy Church throughout all the world :
    doth acknowledge thee;
    The Father : of an infinite Majesty;
    Thine honourable, true : and only Son;
    Also the Holy Ghost : the Comforter....
    Yep, that too.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      In that one, it appears they were "calling" to one another.

      KJV - And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
      YLT - And this one hath called unto that, and hath said: 'Holy, Holy, Holy, is Jehovah of Hosts, The fulness of all the earth is His glory.'
      Darby - And one called to the other and said, Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah of hosts; the whole earth is full of his glory!
      HCSB - And one called to another: Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of Hosts; His glory fills the whole earth.
      http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...=t_corr_685003

      The phrase is also translated as 'singing' in other verses: Ezr 3:11, Rev 15:3
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        The thing that bugs me is the statement, or belief, that after we die we will all become angels. I know this is not a Christian viewpoint but when my wonderful Grand daughter died so many words of consolation were of the sort; There is a new angel in heaven now. I did not attack anyone over it but sometimes I felt like doing so.
        We call them angels here - in that sense Heaven does get a new one. Just not a new messenger.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
          http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...=t_corr_685003

          The phrase is also translated as 'singing' in other verses: Ezr 3:11, Rev 15:3
          CAN be translated.....
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #50
            Can we get too hung up on our definition of a word in a case like this?

            Can "singing" also mean chanting, or reciting poetry, or sounding praise, even if there is no actual music involved?

            I don't know, am just asking.



            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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            • #51
              If angels sings, its in a higher way than what humans can. They don't have any corporal form. They don't have lips or throats. So when the Bible talks about them singing, I think this should be taken by way of analogy. They do something that can best be likened to singing. The Bible is full of language like that, language that can only be taken as analogous, especially when it describes God having emotions.

              That is not to say that Angels couldn't voluntarily give humans who are near them a proximate experience of what they're doing.

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              • #52
                What about Rev 5?

                Are the 4 living creatures angels?

                6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

                “You are worthy to take the scroll
                and to open its seals,
                because you were slain,
                and with your blood you purchased for God
                persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
                10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
                and they will reign[b] on the earth.”

                Sounds like the four living creatures AND the 24 Elders were singing here.

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                • #53
                  The four living creatures in Revelation 4,8 each have six wings and surround the throne of God, which seems to identify them as angels, presumably the seraphim mentioned in Isaiah 6, and in Revelation 5,9 these creatures are singing a new song, which probably also implies they were singing in Revelation 4, but, regardless, they are definitely singing in Revelation 5.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                  • #54
                    Great minds do sometimes think alike, Sparko, but I am hesitant to apply this aphorism here.
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      Can we get too hung up on our definition of a word in a case like this?
                      Sure, so I'm asking if there's any biblical support for angels singing in the sense that they are portrayed in all kinds of popular media, Christmas carols, etc...

                      Can "singing" also mean chanting, or reciting poetry, or sounding praise, even if there is no actual music involved?
                      Or -- "the prisoner sang like a canary" - doesn't mean he actually carried a tune.

                      I don't know, am just asking.

                      All I'm asking is -- is there any biblical support to assume that angels "sing" in the sense that they are popularly portrayed as doing.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        CAN be translated.....
                        Which is why we have to determine what was meant, not merely what whichever translator thought was correct. Since it can be used both ways the question is why do translators sometimes use 'calling' instead of 'singing'? Until you know that you don't know enough to argue one way or the other.
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                        My Personal Blog

                        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                        Quill Sword

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          Sure, so I'm asking if there's any biblical support for angels singing in the sense that they are portrayed in all kinds of popular media, Christmas carols, etc...



                          Or -- "the prisoner sang like a canary" - doesn't mean he actually carried a tune.



                          All I'm asking is -- is there any biblical support to assume that angels "sing" in the sense that they are popularly portrayed as doing.
                          *emphasis mine

                          Presently the correct answer is 'yes, there is' because we've not done the hard translation work to know for certain that 'singing' is an incorrect translation.

                          My guess is this doesn't actually matter - the important thing with angels is to listen when they are acting as messengers of God.
                          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                          "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                          My Personal Blog

                          My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                          Quill Sword

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            What about Rev 5?

                            Are the 4 living creatures angels?

                            6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

                            “You are worthy to take the scroll
                            and to open its seals,
                            because you were slain,
                            and with your blood you purchased for God
                            persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
                            10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
                            and they will reign[b] on the earth.”

                            Sounds like the four living creatures AND the 24 Elders were singing here.
                            This was mentioned earlier...

                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            One of the USUAL responses I get is that the angels "sang a new song" - Rev 14:3, but.....

                            And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

                            It was the 144,000 redeemed from the earth who were singing.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              This was mentioned earlier...
                              Don't confuse Revelation 14 with Revelation 4-5.
                              βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                              ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                              אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                This was mentioned earlier...
                                That was rev 14. I am talking about Rev 5. different situation.

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