Who is a Christian?

[37818]

Moderators note: For orthodox Christians only

[footwasher]

No. You conflate faith with faithfulness [loyalty].

The word of God teaches through faith. Faithfulness is a work of faith. One is not saved by works of faith.

http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatfaith.php

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Second, note that in very few cases is this form of pistis, as meaning a proof, in view. The meaning does give us a clue as to the nature of other meanings. It is often used as a noun to refer to the Christian "faith" as a set of convictions. In far many more cases the meaning intended is in the sense of faithfulness, or loyalty as owed to one in whom one is embedded for service (in this case, the body of Christ).

This now leads to an expansion of the pistis concept as derived from deSilva. As deSilva shows, the relationship between the believer and God is framed in terms of an ancient client-patron relationship. As God's "clients" to whom he has shown unmerited favor (grace), our response should be, as Malina and Neyrey frame it, a "constant awareness" of prescribed duties toward those in whom we are indebted (God) and the group in which we are embedded (God's kin group, the body of Christ).

No. God is the one who keeps.

". . . I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand. . . . " -- John 10:28, 29.
That means not even self can cause removal from God's hold.

Non sequitur.

The teaching is that God is able to protect those who are pure of heart, His sheep, just as He protected Peter, who misunderstood Christ's mission, from Satan's claim on him, but could not protect Judas, who was not His sheep, not pure of heart.

No. God is doing the saving and keeping.

". . . Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, . . ." -- James 1:18.

He begat us with the word, meaning He convinced us to obey, through the word, reasoning. No mention of protecting the impure.

[37818]

Moderator's note:

This area is for orthodox Christians only.

[footwasher]

So what?

Pistis is the noun, not the adjective pistos, which as an adjective could be translated as loyal.

Actually, the noun you're looking for, is "loyalty" as in the quote from the tWeb blog, tektonics.org. As also here, in tWeb member Tercel's blog:

http://theogeek.blogspot.in/2006/03/...brews-111.html

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Anyway, the take home lesson is:
Next time you're reading the bible and you see the words "faith" or "belief" read "faithfulness" instead and think "Patron-Client system = faithfulness repaid with favours". (Of course the result won't make much sense because it won't fit with how the translators have translated the rest of the sentence)

A great rule to keep in mind is this: Faithfulness is targeted at people, belief is targeted at ideas. You can be committed to a person, or committed to an idea. But talking about faithfulness to an idea, or belief in a person is nonsense.

Another example: Jesus says "believe in me". [which is a mis-translation of course, breaking the above rule] Jesus is asking for people to become his clients. ie he's saying "follow me". He's not saying "believe that I am God". There are other examples in classical literature of people saying "believe in me", and guess what, they were wanting clients, not claiming divinity.

Well, the pure in heart do not need a Savior. ". . . for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." -- Matthew 9:13.

"Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God." -- Matthew 5:8.

"The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?" -- Jeremiah 17:9.

"Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully." -- Psalm 24:3, 4.

"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?" -- Proverbs 30:4.

"Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things." -- Ephesians 4:9, 10.

" And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven." -- John 3:13.

" For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: . . ." -- Hebrews 9:24.

". . . that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." -- 2 Corinthians 5:21.

". . . these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world." -- 1 John 2:1, 2.

The pure in heart are His sheep, who are His People, who John the baptist said He came to save from their sins, because of the weakness of the flesh.

It no where says that.

John 15:3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

You expect everything to be pre-digested for you? You have a very flimsy, loophole filled theology, filled with mysteries and paradoxes. Better leave that kid stuff, and get with the program. To grow, you really need to get into the meat, the robust, all comprehending, all inclusive, totality of Scripture stuff.

[37818]

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[footwasher]

footwasher,

One question for you: Would you say that you now possess eternal life?

Of course, mon!

[37818]

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[footwasher]

Do you agree eternal life possessed cannot be lost?

That teaching would be very attractive, even glorifying of God's work, projecting a powerful and effective gifting of eternal life, that not even the saved person himself can undo.

However that's like saying the traffic system in a modern advanced city is so robust even the most careless jaywalker or drunk driver can not bring it to a grinding halt. Eternal life in a person is in the hands of the person, just as keeping the smooth flow of traffic is in the hands of those who use the roads. If you live according to the flesh, you WILL die (Romans 8:13) whereas if you put to death the deeds of the flesh by the Holy Spirit, through fellowship, confession and forgiving of sins, and prayer, you will enhance your state of eternal living, till you receive your prize. Even Paul feared the stunting/terminating of his growth towards that result:

1 Corinthians 9:27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

[37818]

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[footwasher]

First, thank you.

Lastly, 1 Corinthians 9:27, I understand that to refer to being used in ministry.

Salvation isn't about going to heaven. It's about finally being able to be a blessing to the world, as promised to Abraham.

So eternal life is being able to minister.

Scripture calls it knowing God, and His Christ.

[37818]

Moderator's note:

This area is for orthodox Christians only.

[footwasher]

Hmm. . . . The only reason I am not an atheist is that I have eternal life knowing God through His Christ.

You had made the following assertion:

So how are you a blessing to the world?