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Enduring Incarnation?

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  • Enduring Incarnation?

    Hello, TWeb, I was speaking with a friend last night and we had a disagreement about the Incarnation. I firmly believe that Jesus is currently human, and has been human since He was born of Mary, I argued that because He was resurrected in a body that Thomas could touch the holes in, that Jesus remained human, and is not significantly different comparing Him post ressurection and Him post Ascension. My friend argued that because in 1 Corinthians 15 Paul distinguishes between earthly bodies and heavenly bodies that earthly body is roughly synonymous for human body (because He is the first fruits of heavenly bodies) and therefore Jesus no longer has a human body, and human is a descriptor for things of this Earth, irrelevant to Heaven or the New Creation.

    In sum, I believe the Incarnation is forever, and he claimed it lasted only until the Ascension. He is not a heretic, he is thoroughly orthodox and can affirm the Nicene Creed as well as I (and has experienced saving grace and life change) but I wanted to know if this was a view ever encountered by others. I hadn't heard any teachings on it, and I assumed everyone who believed in the Incarnation thought it was continuous like I do, but you know what they say about assuming.

    Do any of you share this view?
    Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

  • #2
    The whole point of the resurrection is that Jesus was the first fruits and that we too will be resurrected in a physical body. So our heavenly bodies will be perfected human bodies and that means that Jesus is still in a such a body. Otherwise there is no point in the resurrection, either for Jesus or for us.

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    • #3
      He agrees the body is physical, but he dislikes the term "human."
      Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
        He agrees the body is physical, but he dislikes the term "human."
        The way I look at it is like this: When God created Adam and Eve, they were the model of the perfect humans. If they had not sinned, they would have lived forever in their human bodies. The resurrection restores us to that state of perfection. If anything we will be MORE human than we are now since we will have no flaws.

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        • #5
          What's wrong with human? We sure won't be angels. Or *insert favorite human aliens here*.
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

          Comment


          • #6
            "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;". - 1 Timothy 2:5. Teaches Jesus is a man.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
              He agrees the body is physical, but he dislikes the term "human."
              What sort of bodies does your friend think we will have when we are glorified? The same as the ones we now inhabit or other. Sounds an awfully lot like a semantic difference.

              I personally expect to have a physical "heavenly" body of flesh and bone, and will still I imagine be human. His is an odd position I have not run into before. I see God eternally tying Himself to human kind with the resurrection as a man who will never again die. He is eternally man.
              Last edited by Jedidiah; 01-23-2015, 04:54 PM.
              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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              • #8
                Thank you 37818, my friend and I while we know the Scriptures pretty well, are both 19, and it was 2AM, that verse would have been helpful towards our coming to a speedy agreement.

                I agree Sparko's, and I used that argument.

                I agree Christianbookwork, and I used that argument minus aliens.

                This isn't about me "winning" either though, I will share that verse and push no further.
                Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                  What sort of bodies does your friend think we will have when we are glorified? The same as the ones we now inhabit or other. Sounds an awfully lot like a semantic difference.

                  I personally expect to have a physical "heavenly" body of flesh and bone, and will still I imagine be human. His is an odd position I have not run into before. I see God eternally tying Himself to human kind with the resurrection as a man who will never again die. He is eternally man.
                  You're right, while at times we seemed far apart, we both left feeling like it was primarily semantics between us, this conversation went for about and hour and a half, was intense at times, but both of us were tired.
                  Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                    He agrees the body is physical, but he dislikes the term "human."
                    I dislike the term "human" in regards to Christ, only because it, by itself, discounts His deity....

                    I often say he was ALL GOD and ALL MAN - the GODMAN Christ Jesus.

                    HOWEVER, on earth, He no doubt was incarnated (wrapped in flesh) in a human body.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                      "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;". - 1 Timothy 2:5. Teaches Jesus is a man.
                      And MORE.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        I dislike the term "human" in regards to Christ, only because it, by itself, discounts His deity....

                        I often say he was ALL GOD and ALL MAN - the GODMAN Christ Jesus.

                        HOWEVER, on earth, He no doubt was incarnated (wrapped in flesh) in a human body.
                        Dear CP,

                        He really was fully human even as He was and is always fully deity. In the incarnation (John 1:14) the only thing that changed was how He was "with God" (John 1:1, 2). That He "was God" (John 1:1, 3) never changed. (Malachi 3:6.)
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And MORE.
                          How would He only being the man hear those now millions of prayers all at once? Remember as the man He was always in heaven even when He walked this earth (John 3:13. ". . . [even] the Son of man who is in heaven.").
                          . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We could possibly make a distinction of four terms to clarify how to see Christ Jesus in his raised state while contrasted against the non-raised man

                            1. Man -- as a general term referring to all who people who have lived on the earth
                            2. Human -- as a species of the animal kingdom (at least from a naturalistic science mode of thinking)
                            3. New Creature -- all believers -- a state which still appears as if only human
                            4. Resurrected man -- the resurrected state which may then not be restricted to the physical limitations of humans

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Dear CP,

                              He really was fully human even as He was and is always fully deity. In the incarnation (John 1:14) the only thing that changed was how He was "with God" (John 1:1, 2). That He "was God" (John 1:1, 3) never changed. (Malachi 3:6.)
                              Dear 3718

                              No foolin!
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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