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Transhumanism

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  • #16
    Originally posted by seanD View Post
    Or the Singularity: merging of human and machine to a superior level of humanness is being discussed by the intellectuals and academicians of the world more and more because it's becoming more and more inevitable. Some of this includes actually altering human DNA. The question is: how far does it go before it becomes unchristian, or does it ever become unchristian?
    I think it may be a next step in evolution, those resisting will get left behind and considered as animals or mentally impaired. Or criminals, if such technology is imposed to monitor and control societal behavior -- God's Laws could be written on hearts and minds by way of computer, a cyber Messiah and New Covenant. It may be a coming type of persecution for a lot of Christians who deny it. We'll have to see...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by seanD View Post
      But what if they do. Or perhaps simulate something that at least looks like immortality (i.e. uploading the human mind into a computer system). How will Christians handle this?
      That's a big "If" statement. A really big "If" statement. I'm not convinced humans have the power to even attempt a grab at immortality, despite what modern "intellectuals" think, and it's not something I'm going to sweat over unless it actually comes to pass (in which case, obviously its my theology that's wrong, not Jesus Christ who is wrong).

      And, again, as I said, I think all this "cyborg" talk is us moderners talking waaay over our head, except we like to think its something we know anything about. Not only that, but I find the very idea so ludicrous that a discussion about elves and magic in the Lord of the Rings seems more realistic and productive.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Just Some Dude View Post
        That's a big "If" statement. A really big "If" statement. I'm not convinced humans have the power to even attempt a grab at immortality, despite what modern "intellectuals" think, and it's not something I'm going to sweat over unless it actually comes to pass (in which case, obviously its my theology that's wrong, not Jesus Christ who is wrong).

        And, again, as I said, I think all this "cyborg" talk is us moderners talking waaay over our head, except we like to think its something we know anything about. Not only that, but I find the very idea so ludicrous that a discussion about elves and magic in the Lord of the Rings seems more realistic and productive.
        The issue with what I bolded in your post is that all this technology may continue to come gradually. We're already approaching a lot of this stuff, but we adapt and accept the technology as just part of modern society. There may be a point where this stuff somehow becomes detrimental to our faith or somehow crosses the religious line but we may not even readily notice it because the line of what is forbidden and what isn't is so subtle. Or another issue is that it may become so ingrained in our society that it may be extremely difficult if not impossible (this is what I meant by societal pressure) not to adapt to it and integrate it in our lives. This is why I believe it's important for Christians to discuss this now.

        As far as what you said about your theology being wrong; why do you say that?
        Last edited by seanD; 02-02-2014, 08:06 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
          I think it may be a next step in evolution, those resisting will get left behind and considered as animals or mentally impaired. Or criminals, if such technology is imposed to monitor and control societal behavior -- God's Laws could be written on hearts and minds by way of computer, a cyber Messiah and New Covenant. It may be a coming type of persecution for a lot of Christians who deny it. We'll have to see...
          Dude, I totally agree. I think this will elevate humanity to another level of existence or reality and those who reject it will be looked upon as outcasts, religious kooks, or even with suspicion or as a threat to human progress.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by seanD View Post
            Dude, I totally agree. I think this will elevate humanity to another level of existence or reality and those who reject it will be looked upon as outcasts, religious kooks, or even with suspicion or as a threat to human progress.
            Though it ventures into eschatology, that humans may someday be programmed and monitored constantly to behave themselves, as well as dominate in economic superiority with instant access to knowledge and information as part of a singular technological consciousness, may have some implications along these lines...

            Deuteronomy 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

            Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

            Revelation 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

            Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
            May, or may not, but I wouldn't slam the door on that possibility.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by seanD View Post
              It's a fascinating subject. It covers everything from actual life extension technology, DNA modification to enhance human abilities to actually downloading data from the computer directly into your brain. Some of this is right out of the Matrix-type stuff, but it's being taken as a serious reality by academics worldwide. Christians should be aware of this and decide when this becomes unchristian before this technology becomes a reality and they're faced with societal pressure to integrate themselves with this technology.
              It may be best to raise one technology at a time because since the possible changes are so varied, there are so many ethical concers involved. For example, I think actual life extension beyond the normal lifespan reveals hubris and love of the world. DNA modification to me concerns issues about human worth and dignity.

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              • #22
                If such technology were used to return function to disabled persons (replacement limbs, repairing spinal cords, etc) or even as a way to enhance sensory input (direct neural interface with the net) then I really don't have a problem with it. God made us into technological creatures and we will continue to use technology to enhance and better our lives.

                I would draw the line at such things as uploading minds to computers and calling that "immortality" - even going so far as to replace someone's entire body with a duplicate technological body (biological or technological) and uploading their mind to it and saying that is them. It would be as Jed said, a copy at best, not the original.

                I just read a sci-fi story on that very subject, and it was pretty good: Mindscan by Robert Sawyer

                http://www.amazon.com/Mindscan-Rober...=UTF8&sr=&qid=
                "Jake Sullivan has cheated death: he's discarded his doomed biological body and copied his consciousness into an android form. The new Jake soon finds love, something that eluded him when he was encased in flesh: he falls for the android version of Karen, a woman rediscovering all the joys of life now that she's no longer constrained by a worn-out body either.
                But suddenly Karen's son sues her, claiming that by uploading into an immortal body, she has done him out of his inheritance. Even worse, the original version of Jake, consigned to die on the far side of the moon, has taken hostages there, demanding the return of his rights of personhood. In the courtroom and on the lunar surface, the future of uploaded humanity hangs in the balance."

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by seanD View Post
                  Or the Singularity: merging of human and machine to a superior level of humanness is being discussed by the intellectuals and academicians of the world more and more because it's becoming more and more inevitable. Some of this includes actually altering human DNA. The question is: how far does it go before it becomes unchristian, or does it ever become unchristian?
                  This is, at heart, only a modern facet of one of the biggest debates in all of philosophy, that is, if we should strive to overcome and use nature for our own ends or whether we should respect it and use it as a guideline for how we act. God comes into this because, of course, He created nature and dictated to humanity a set of rules to live by. With that being said, I'm inclined to view most aspects of transhumanism as compatible with Christian ethics, but I think we should also consider the risks and benefits and feasibility of the different aspects of transhumanism, as well as whether or not it will be able to offer individual fulfillment, too. On the former I think that TH is both much farther off than we think it is - if it's at all possible - and will be a lot more fragile once we get to it than people like Kurzweil would have us believe.

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                  • #24
                    I agree with GioD. Kurzeil is a bit of an idiot when it comes to such things. People are a lot more reluctant to allow themselves to be turned into robots than he and the other "futurists" think. It all sounds cool to spout off about the "singularity" and "metahumanism" and such, and it makes for good Hollywood and sci-fi novels but people won't just line up to have themselves scanned into some computer and then destroy their biological bodies, or even have technology take over their biological body. Especially since technology is a lot more fragile than our own bodies are. Computers are always breaking down, as well as mechanical devices. A bionic arm might sound nice and be OK if you lost your real one, but I seriously doubt anyone other than complete nutjobs would volunteer cutting off their arm and replacing it with a bionic/robotic one.

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                    • #25
                      I say kill all the cyborgs, and let God sort 'em out!

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        Would you allow microsoft to put a chip in your head? They can't even keep a computer operating system running smoothly.
                        And the viruses we would get would be computer viruses; Norton would want an annual subscription; we could become parts of advertising botnets; we could communicate brain to brain via Bluetooth etc; the NSA/GCHQ would spy on our brains directly. No, it's too horrible to contemplate.

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                        • #27
                          recalculating.... recalculating...

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                          • #28
                            You know how some people get their Internet browsers loaded up with spyware? Now just imagine the human equivalent of that.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              You know how some people get their Internet browsers loaded up with spyware? Now just imagine the human equivalent of that.
                              We already have that. It's called "Television"

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                              • #30
                                We really do need that amen feature back.
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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