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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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What Is TWeb's Thoughts on Charismatic Christianity
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't agree that that's the case. I think Oneness Pentecostalism is heretical, but I believe most Oneness Pentecostals are naively ignorant about the Trinity. Megachurch Bishop T.D. Jakes, for instance, moved away from Oneness Pentecostalism after examining the traditional doctrine on the Trinity, and finding he agreed with it. The Trinity is a notoriously complicated concept to grasp within and without Christianity (probably second only to the debate on the nature of Christ), and was responsible for splits in the church from very early on. I have a hard time believing that everyone who's fallen into the heresy of modalism is not a Christian.
That's why Catholics distinguish between material heresy and formal heresy, however there's no doubt that Oneness Pentacostals teach heresy on multiple levels. All Christians should agree that their denial of the Trinity is a serious, and very heinous kind of heresy.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostJust out of curiosity Leo.. what language do angels speak to each other? Hebrew? Greek? English?
If you're talking about what theologians consider angels to use, they don't use any kind of language. They don't need a medium as such to communicate intention with each other.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah, I never like declaring somebody "not Christian" based on the group or denomination they align with, anymore than I would declare somebody "Christian" for the same reason.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI think you'd have to ask Charismatic Christians what kind of language they imagine they're speaking when they're lollygapping their way through a hyper-emotional prayer session. Its definitely not any human language. If its any kind of language, its some kind of babynoise-ish repetitive babble consisting of the same few words over and over again.
If you're talking about what theologians consider angels to use, they don't use any kind of language. They don't need a medium as such to communicate intention with each other.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostThe most basic kind of heresy a "Christian" person can commit, is the heresy of denying Trinity.
I don't think we can assume that just because somebody wears a denominational tag that he accepts all that denomination teaches.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostBut they do speak and sing, so assuming they don't have their own language with each other is an argument from silence.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAngels sing?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostJob 38:7Last edited by Cow Poke; 02-09-2015, 03:26 PM.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI'm quite open to the idea that most Christians who belong to Oneness Pentacostalism are so thoroughly ungrounded that its hard to judge whether they really openly reject the Christian dogma, or whether they're simple ignorant of it.
That's why Catholics distinguish between material heresy and formal heresy, however there's no doubt that Oneness Pentacostals teach heresy on multiple levels. All Christians should agree that their denial of the Trinity is a serious, and very heinous kind of heresy.
Completely aside, and this isn't meant as a nitpick, but when writing "simple" as in "they're simple ignorant of it", we usually write "simply" with the "ly" at the end in English.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't know what you mean by "ungrounded". It seems to me that most Christians in most denominations are ignorant concerning the minute details of Christian doctrine. I know this is true among both my Catholic, and Protestant friends. For the record, Oneness Pentecostals do not deny the Trinity, they just have a very mistaken view of how it operates. Yes, obviously the view is heretical, but is it heretical enough that I'm certain a Oneness.
This is a serious heresy.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI think it's possible for a Christian to get "mixed up with" one of these other outfits, maybe because they don't understand what they teach. If the accept the doctrines, or actively deny the Trininty - that's a different thing.
Again, that's why Catholics distinguish between material and formal heresy: Someone can genuinely believe in something which is false and an offense to God, but unknowingly, if they're then made aware of this when confronted with the authoritative teaching, they must give up the heresy. If they don't then they become formal heretics.
I don't think we can assume that just because somebody wears a denominational tag that he accepts all that denomination teaches.
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Originally posted by Obsidian View PostThe text literally says that the man talks to himself.
The text no where literally says that the man cannot understand himself. My opponents rest their entire case on the existence of the gift of interpreting tongues and the verse about praying "that he may interpret."
But there are numerous explanations for that verse, which can also allow for the speaker to understand himself. I don't have enough data to select exactly which explanation is correct. But I rely on the text about speaking to himself, which is clear.
So the weight of the evidence supports my position. It's not a close call. The main reason people are confused is because of their charismatic traditions and preconceptions.Last edited by Littlejoe; 02-09-2015, 04:04 PM."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNot arguing this at all, 37 - just curious where you got this? (It sounds correct as far as I know). . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV
. . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV
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Originally posted by 37818 View PostUnited Pentecostal web site and the Wikipedia on them.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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