Music Debate Between Fundamentalist and Rapper

[Zymologist]

Utter non-sequitur and top drawer ethnocentrism if not blatant racism. This kind of non-thinking shouldn't be found in the church.



I'd like to see scriptural references, but even if true this still is fallacious as pointed out above.



Err, anything and everything can be set to promiscuous lyrics. It's not intrinsic to any one kind of musical style.



So what? Is music utterly outside of God's redeeming power?



I am, of course, directing all of this at Mr. Racist Old Man Scared of Music Styles He Didn't Grow Up With and not at Zymologist.

Yeah, I'm not at all convinced. I was most intrigued by the discussion when Shai asked Scott to give an example of clearly sinful music, and Scott (of course!) gives Christian death metal. Given my unashamed love of metal, this piqued my interest. I wasn't particularly impressed with his analysis of it.

So I think we are in agreement. And I'm not a huge fan of rap either.

[Zymologist]

[Zymologist]

To be clear, I should point out that the 16th-18th century European music argument did not come from Scott Aniol, though his arguments are similar in a few superficial ways. I gave it as an actual example of what I thought was a clearly absurd argument.

[Just Some Dude]

I happen to like Shai Linne's music and what he is doing, so naturally, I disagree with his opponent.

[RBerman]

I recently read something by a scholar who argued that much of the NT is written in informal language of that time, almost close to what might be considered slang in some parts. I wish I could remember exactly where I saw that. (It also would have been relevant a year or so ago when another poster spoke about a fellowship of men he was involved with that believed that everyday speech should be in the language of the King James Bible era.) Needless to say, I would probably be dubious about Scott's claim here.

This has been debunked. The Koine Greek of the New Testament is not the language of the marketplace. It's its own sort of "Biblese" that constantly uses phrases and grammatical structures out of the Septuagint to a degree found in no writings contemporary to it.

That said, I find the arguments against Christian rap both theologically and anthropologically untenable. They boil down to "I am a victim of confirmation bias, seeing only the bad in other sub-cultures and only the good in my own."

[Manwë Súlimo]

Hey, Bermster. Glad to see you made it back.

[Raphael]

Hmmm, well I would argue that Shia Linne's music is probably some of the theologically heavier stuff available.

For example his QnA on the Atonement is solid stuff. (now you may agree with his Calvinism, as a fellow reformed I obviously don't, but not much other music out there consists basically of pure theology)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RUciHVpCbw

Or his Greatest Story Ever Told
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWgrzqEVZ4

Tim Challies, who personally doesn't enjoy Rap, recently went over a new book published by Cruciform Press: Does God Listen to Rap? Christians and the World’s Most Controversial Music by Curtis Allen
http://www.challies.com/cruciform-pr...-christian-rap
I haven't read it yet but it's on my Kindle wishlist.

[Celebrian]

This does seem like an old debate continued with the latest music. The pastor of a church I went to many years ago did a sermon on the evil of rock music and particularly how drums are of the devil. Ironically, the next week we had a visiting missionary from Africa who was an ethnomusicologist. She talked about being able to reach Africans for Christ through their music, which of course included a lot of drums. I guess I should give the paster props for letting her come -- maybe he didn't know what he was getting into.

[KingsGambit]

This has been debunked. The Koine Greek of the New Testament is not the language of the marketplace. It's its own sort of "Biblese" that constantly uses phrases and grammatical structures out of the Septuagint to a degree found in no writings contemporary to it.

That said, I find the arguments against Christian rap both theologically and anthropologically untenable. They boil down to "I am a victim of confirmation bias, seeing only the bad in other sub-cultures and only the good in my own."

This is interesting. To what degree does the language differ from what was used in ordinary writing (as opposed to everyday speech, which would naturally be more difficult to know much about?) Since Paul had a habit of cobbling quotations from various sources, if that were the case, it would seem that these would stick out like a sore thumb if there was a significant difference.

[Zymologist]

This does seem like an old debate continued with the latest music. The pastor of a church I went to many years ago did a sermon on the evil of rock music and particularly how drums are of the devil. Ironically, the next week we had a visiting missionary from Africa who was an ethnomusicologist. She talked about being able to reach Africans for Christ through their music, which of course included a lot of drums. I guess I should give the paster props for letting her come -- maybe he didn't know what he was getting into.

It is an old debate. And the arguments against it haven't really gotten any better, they just don't look quite as shallow as they used to (like the argument that rock music kills plants).

[KingsGambit]

Part of me just wants to scream "Move on from milk to meat!" But I have to understand this is a real concern for people who are genuinely and honestly concerned about the propriety of the music (and I'm not a rap fan myself).

[Zymologist]

I've wondered why this topic interests me so much; I really don't know why it does. I have settled the issue in my own conscience, so it's not because of any lingering doubts on my part.

I'd probably irritate myself a lot less if I quit reading these debates on music and morality.

[KingsGambit]

I've wondered why this topic interests me so much; I really don't know why it does. I have settled the issue in my own conscience, so it's not because of any lingering doubts on my part.

I'd probably irritate myself a lot less if I quit reading these debates on music and morality.

To be clear, my previous post wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at people who spent lots of time and energy trying to tear down Christian musicians.

[Zymologist]

To be clear, my previous post wasn't aimed at you. It was aimed at people who spent lots of time and energy trying to tear down Christian musicians.

I thought so, but thanks for the clarification. Good to know.

[Just Some Dude]

Hmmm, well I would argue that Shia Linne's music is probably some of the theologically heavier stuff available.

For example his QnA on the Atonement is solid stuff. (now you may agree with his Calvinism, as a fellow reformed I obviously don't, but not much other music out there consists basically of pure theology)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RUciHVpCbw

Or his Greatest Story Ever Told
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChWgrzqEVZ4

Tim Challies, who personally doesn't enjoy Rap, recently went over a new book published by Cruciform Press: Does God Listen to Rap? Christians and the World’s Most Controversial Music by Curtis Allen
http://www.challies.com/cruciform-pr...-christian-rap
I haven't read it yet but it's on my Kindle wishlist.

I wish more Christian music was theologically heavy, instead of being highly-repetitious, feel-good garbage. I'm neither Reformed nor a rap fan, but I like and respect Shai Linne's music a lot for what he does.