Joy

[Cow Poke]

1 Who claimed that?
2 Define salvation.

no

[Thoughtful Monk]

I think some of the verses mentioned in the thread have been misapplied. So Christians feel obligated to be joyful even when they are not. This produces the fakeness you're perceiving.

After all let's face it, most Christians aren't as mature as Paul and to expect Paul-like behavior from them is unrealistic.

[footwasher]

Good. With that out of the way, let's continue in building up one another.

Jesus taught that grounds for rejoicing was that one worked to keep his name in the book of life, have eternal life.

John taught that one could know that this was happening by the love present in the believer's life.

1 John 4:7Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Which interestingly is to help others have eternal life:

John 15:13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

John 17:3Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Now, obedience IS sacrifice. Unless a seed dies it cannot bear fruit. Which means over thinking, saying hard truths.

no

[Cow Poke]

[footwasher]

One shouldn't make obedience antithetical to sacrifice. Obedience requires sacrifice. Saul did not sacrifice. He usurped Samuel's ministry. Samuel was being sarcastic.

Keeping Jesus' commands is gonna involve plenty o' sacrifice.

John 15:9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.

It's a lot more simple than you're trying to make it.

[Cow Poke]

One shouldn't make obedience antithetical to sacrifice. Obedience requires sacrifice. Saul did not sacrifice. He usurped Samuel's ministry. Samuel was being sarcastic.

You need joy.

And LEARN HOW TO QUOTE!!!!!! Comments FOLLOW the quote, not precede it!

[Cow Poke]

Keeping Jesus' commands is gonna involve plenty o' sacrifice.

Not necessarily. When you truly experience the joy of serving Jesus, it becomes fun, not sacrifice -- and when you DO sacrifice, you count it all joy.

[footwasher]

You need joy.

And LEARN HOW TO QUOTE!!!!!! Comments FOLLOW the quote, not precede it!

Jest stand on yer haid!

[footwasher]

Not necessarily. When you truly experience the joy of serving Jesus, it becomes fun, not sacrifice -- and when you DO sacrifice, you count it all joy.

Yo' jes provin mah point.

[Cow Poke]

Yo' jes provin mah point.

You're even more confused than I thought.

[footwasher]

You're even more confused than I thought.

Yo' jest lookin' to argue.

[Cow Poke]

There is Joy in serving Jesus.

[footwasher]

There is Joy in serving Jesus.

Which is in picking up ones cross. Saying hard truths being one way. Hey I don't enjoy being opposed. Just enjoy being in God's will.

[Cow Poke]

Which is in picking up ones cross. Saying hard truths being one way. Hey I don't enjoy being opposed. Just enjoy being in God's will.

I think you're a bit of a legalist looking for ways to make things difficult. Perhaps it makes you feel more important because it's something you have to do.

[Pentecost]

So what exactly does joy, derived from the Holy Spirit, look like?

I think it depends on context. I am very joyful when I'm laughing in the Spirit, but equally, I know not everyone will, or even wants to express joy in that manner. In fact, I know not all are joyous that I just admitted to doing that, and would be even less if they saw it. But joy can be expressed in any number of ways, it could look like prayer, singing, dancing, shouting, laughing, clapping, sitting with your head bowed... You get the picture.

I'm not saying any of those should be pursued for joy's sake but those can be ways that you see it. No shame in a sober manner.

The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
-1 Peter 4:7