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Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

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  • #16
    Jesus was pretty durn exclusive on this ... "I am the way, the truth and the life -- NO MAN (emphasis mine ) comes to the Father but by me...."
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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    • #17
      From my conversations with siam in the Islam section, he has recently revealed to me that their doctrine of Tawheed, referring to the Oneness of God is so complete that he thinks that nearly everyone worships God, he made it clear that everything from Jesus to the Hindu Brahman is the same God as Allah, he missed the logical impossibility of it, but he is both devout and moderate from what I can tell.

      Obviously it's logically impossible, God is not the Truth as in Jesus while at the same time a being of makr, but that is apparently the normative Islamic stance. It is of course only tangential to the question, but I thought it good to bring up their opinion on it.
      Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        Taken from the "Pluralism and Acts 17" thread, as well as a couple others.

        If yes, what does this imply theologically?
        Taking a clue from KG I say we do not worship the same god. Muslims worship satan, look at their fruits.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
          So basically, the Koran says that "Allah" is none other than the devil?
          I'd say that it's a "qualified yes". It says that Allah is the greatest of deceivers, and all deception is his. However Iblis, is identified as a distinct entity. Then there's the character and "fruits" of Islam, Allah, Mohammed etc. that lead me to believe that yes, the Islamic Al-ilah is Satan.

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          • #20
            Christianity and islam are mutually exclusive - they cannot both be correct about Who God is. The god constructed by the muslim understanding is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - the few similarities don't override the contradictions. That does not mean muslims aren't sincerely seeking after God; it does mean the god they know is a false one.

            If we accept the logical inconsistencies between the two then how are we to oppose the inconsistency of rejecting Christ? If it's okay to think God somehow managed to forget sending His Son to die on the cross for us and tossed in an extra prophet then how is it not okay to just keep right on following that prophet instead of Christ? For the Christian, that position is untenable but it's unavoidable as long as we insist on allowing that islam worships the same god, just with a bunch of mistakes. If we are to be witnesses to the muslims then we cannot accept the 'all gods are the same' premise. Doesn't mean being disrespectful to the believer but does mean not accepting the belief.
            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
              I sway with the Catholic Church on this one. I think Muslims are doing their best to Worship God. I think they do not understand him and are blinded by false belief, but I do believe they do acknowledge God.
              The Israelites did that with the golden calf. Didn't work out so well for them.

              Sincere worship only is worthy when it is directed to the only God. And Jesus is the ONLY way to God. Not Mohammed or any other prophet or "good man".

              In the end, it comes down to truth and untruth. There can't be more than one truth. If Jesus is the only way to God, then EVERY other faith-system is wrong.

              There is only one choice to make regarding your beliefs. You choose Jesus, or you don't. And no choice is still a choice.


              Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                Christianity and islam are mutually exclusive - they cannot both be correct about Who God is. The god constructed by the muslim understanding is NOT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - the few similarities don't override the contradictions. That does not mean muslims aren't sincerely seeking after God; it does mean the god they know is a false one.

                If we accept the logical inconsistencies between the two then how are we to oppose the inconsistency of rejecting Christ? If it's okay to think God somehow managed to forget sending His Son to die on the cross for us and tossed in an extra prophet then how is it not okay to just keep right on following that prophet instead of Christ? For the Christian, that position is untenable but it's unavoidable as long as we insist on allowing that islam worships the same god, just with a bunch of mistakes. If we are to be witnesses to the muslims then we cannot accept the 'all gods are the same' premise. Doesn't mean being disrespectful to the believer but does mean not accepting the belief.
                I agree with all of this. I was mostly reminded of how square_peg and robrecht, apparently, have said that Muslims worship the same God as Christians. I was interested to see if either of them would respond here.
                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                  I agree with all of this. I was mostly reminded of how square_peg and robrecht, apparently, have said that Muslims worship the same God as Christians. I was interested to see if either of them would respond here.
                  The God worshipped by Muslims is in many ways different from the God worshipped by Christians, but that is also true to some extent among many Christians, who disagree on many details, some of them rather important. I do not know a lot about Islam so I cannot offer much here about this, but for me the bottom line is that Jews, Christians, and Muslims all agree that there is only one God who is transcendent, mysterious, merciful and good. The immanence of God in Christ, in our brothers and sisters, in the poor and needy, and indeed in all creation is, to me, a much greater mystery than his transcendence.
                  βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                  ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                  אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                    Taken from the "Pluralism and Acts 17" thread, as well as a couple others.

                    If yes, what does this imply theologically?
                    If so, then Mohammad was a Christian. And the followers of today's Islam are today in deep error. (Matthew 4:4). The Qur'an can only be correctly understood in light of the Hebrew Bible, the Christian New Testament. Jesus was not the Son of God by being the son of Mary: because Mary the mother of Jesus was not God's concubine. Both modalism and polytheism are error.
                    Last edited by 37818; 12-29-2014, 10:24 PM.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

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                    • #25
                      I'm with robrecht here in a way.

                      For me, I consider the questions in the context of evangelism. How much about our view of God do we share in common? How much can we relate to the Muslim that we want to minister to? If your average Muslim is anything at all like your average "Christian", they have a very very simplistic understanding of God not shaped much by the doctrine of their religion. I had a Turkish friend who couldn't tell you squat about Islam, even though he claimed to be a Muslim, and most Christians I know still think of God as a bearded man sitting on a cloud in the sky. If we can find a way to reach out to Muslims, and find common ground, I'm all for it. It seems to me that both religions can agree that there is only one god. So that's a start. They also seem to believe that God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere present. So that's good.

                      One of the most striking ontological differences seems to be how we view God's omnibenevolence. Allah doesn't appear to be a God of love. They agree with Christians that God is to be revered, to be respected, to be glorified, and feared, but what seems to be missing is God's mercy. His long-suffering. His forgiveness And the type of love that's expressed in John 1 and 1 John 4. That's as big a hurdle, maybe, as is the doctrine of the trinity. But I don't think its an insurmountable hurdle.

                      In a previous thread on these forums, it was mentioned that many Muslims have converted to Christianity after having dreams of Christ Jesus, and, no doubt a miraculous vision of Christ in one's dream would probably have anyone converting, no matter what religion they come from, but I wonder if they are able to convert in that way because they have at least some conception of God and of Jesus to begin with.

                      So, I guess for me, the question is more...Is the god of the Koran the same as the one Christians worship? And I think my answer to that question is no. But is the god that Muslims worship the same as the God that Christians worship? And, I don't know...I think the answer is a bit fuzzier.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        . . . .
                        So, I guess for me, the question is more...Is the god of the Koran the same as the one Christians worship? And I think my answer to that question is no. But is the god that Muslims worship the same as the God that Christians worship? And, I don't know...I think the answer is a bit fuzzier.
                        Have you read any of the Qu'ran? Abraham offers up his son to Allah. Today's Isalm interprets that son to be Ishmael. But the Qu'ran does not give the name of Abraham's son. The Hebrew holy scriptures and the Christian New Testament tell us who that son was.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Note: I believe John the Apostle was the last prophet of God. And I believe the two prophets to come are Elijah and Moses (who appeared with Jesus at His transformation).
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                            Have you read any of the Qu'ran? Abraham offers up his son to Allah. Today's Isalm interprets that son to be Ishmael. But the Qu'ran does not give the name of Abraham's son. The Hebrew holy scriptures and the Christian New Testament tell us who that son was.
                            Yes. I've read quite a bit of the Koran, but never made it all the way through. Actually, I didn't read it, I listened to it being read in English and then reread in Arabic all sing-song like. It was pretty cool, but it took forever. And yeah, I got to the part where Abraham offers his son. There are a lot of Biblical stories retold in bizarre fashion in the Koran. Being familiar with some Jewish and Christian apocrypha, it seemed to me a lot of what I was hearing could be traced directly to that. For instance, the stories about Jesus as a boy seemed directly lifted from the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. And their stories on Adam seemed similar to certain Jewish Apocrypha and other Jewish writings I've read.

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                            • #29
                              square_peg asked me if he could post in this thread, and I said sure. Just posting this here for the record.
                              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                                You have a point, but what I know of the history of Islam doesn't fit well with it being a Christian unorthodox cult, unless you throw out Mohammed as a historical figure.



                                Did you go and read the site? They cite Muslim interpretations from Muslim scholars both new and old in their material, and go into why the "nicer" interpretations don't stand up to scrutiny.

                                There's also the notorious problem of "taqiyyah", and I have witnessed it myself in my own search into Islam. Any hard questions were swept away, and in one case I was actually hung up on(this case was a live chat for answering questions on Islam). I pointed out what makr means, and that Allah was dishonest with his own followers. The conversations was immediately closed.



                                I've seen said problem, and I do everything I can to avoid doing such myself. I don't recall the source I'm currently using falling prey to that.
                                I did look at it. There are also "balanced" sites out there that quote liberal Christian scholars who support homosexuality to demonstrate that authentic Christianity has no problem with it. I would just like a more neutral site altogether because selection of quotations is always going to be selective in these cases. However, I do agree it does appear in this case that it is very likely Islam permits Allah to lie.
                                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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