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Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

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  • Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

    Taken from the "Pluralism and Acts 17" thread, as well as a couple others.

    If yes, what does this imply theologically?
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  • #2
    I think a good place to start is to look at the attributes of God as described in the Bible. For example, Hebrews 6:18 says that not just that God does not lie, but literally that it is impossible for God to lie. Does this describe Allah? (I don't know. A quick search has shown me that Muslims do not agree on this.)
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      The Koran also says that God is not a Trinity. That pretty much answers the question.

      Islam basically started as an unorthodox cult of Christianity.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
        Taken from the "Pluralism and Acts 17" thread, as well as a couple others.

        If yes, what does this imply theologically?
        It might also be worth asking: if no, what would that imply theologically?

        Because the answer is no.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I think a good place to start is to look at the attributes of God as described in the Bible. For example, Hebrews 6:18 says that not just that God does not lie, but literally that it is impossible for God to lie. Does this describe Allah? (I don't know. A quick search has shown me that Muslims do not agree on this.)
          Muslims might not agree on it, but the Koran says the "Allah" is not only a deceiver, but the greatest of deceivers. Some Muslims will try to downplay this, by saying it's only against those who do not follow Allah, or by saying the word doesn't imply something evil. However, this is simply untrue.

          Source: Answering Islam

          After listing several Muslim sources he quotes a renowned Muslim expositor named ar-Razi who wrote that,

          "scheming (makr) is actually an act of deception aiming at causing evil. It is not possible to attribute deception to God. Thus the word is one of the muttashabihat [multivalent words of the Quran]." (Ibid., p. 166; italic emphasis ours)

          -
          And here, also, is how one of the earliest sources on the life of Muhammad interpreted Q. 8:30:

          Then he reminds the apostle of His favour towards him when the people plotted against him 'to kill him, or to wound him, or to drive him out; and they plotted and God plotted, and is the best of plotters.' i.e. I DECEIVED them with My firm GUILE so that I delivered you from them. (The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], p. 323; capital emphasis ours)

          Thus, the Quran unashamedly calls Muhammad’s god the best liar and deceiver of them all! It even dares to say that ALL deception belongs completely to Allah:

          And verily, those before them did deceive/scheme (makara), but all deception/scheming is Allah's (falillahi al-makru). He knows what every person earns, and the disbelievers will know who gets the good end. S. 13:42

          © Copyright Original Source



          http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/a...t_deceiver.htm

          Source: Answering Islam

          Interestingly enough, this is not the only place where the "Qur'anic Allah" seems to be at ease with deception or at least half-truths.

          In Sura 8:43 a dream is mentioned. The verse reads,

          Remember in your dream (Muhammad), Allah showed them to you as few. If He had shown them to you as many, you (Muslims) would surely have been discouraged and would have disputed in your decision. But God saved, for He is a Knower of the secrets of the hearts.
          This verse, which came after the battle of Badr, refers to a dream which Muhammad had before the battle, but it leaves more problems than it solves. It does not claim that the dream showed a victory, and it depicts God as showing the 300 Muslim fighters that there will only be a few enemy soldiers instead of 1000. Thus, it shows God using deception to achieve His aims in His own community of believers.

          © Copyright Original Source



          http://www.answering-islam.org/Why-not/32deception.html

          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          The Koran also says that God is not a Trinity. That pretty much answers the question.
          I agree here, but there is so much more to it than that. Islam denies that Jesus died on the cross, and the resurrection of Jesus.

          Islam basically started as an unorthodox cult of Christianity.
          I disagree here. I see Islam as a pure anti-Christianity. It's got Satan's fingerprints all over it, especially when you look to see the character of "Allah". I tend to think of Mohammed as either possessed, or heavily influenced by demons as well.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            Muslims might not agree on it, but the Koran says the "Allah" is not only a deceiver, but the greatest of deceivers.
            So basically, the Koran says that "Allah" is none other than the devil?
            ~Formerly known as Chrawnus~

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post



              I disagree here. I see Islam as a pure anti-Christianity. It's got Satan's fingerprints all over it, especially when you look to see the character of "Allah". I tend to think of Mohammed as either possessed, or heavily influenced by demons as well.
              So do every other cult, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism.

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              • #8
                I'd like to see some more sources than anti-Islam polemic sites; the reason is because there are similar anti-Christian polemic sites that say the exact same thing about 1 Kings 22:22. (I believe this CAN be explained so it doesn't mean that God lies, but Muslims have their own interpretations, too. We need to be fair.)

                Semi-tangent: I've noticed that sometimes Christians are too uncritical in the arguments they use against Islam because they use ones that can be used against Christianity, too. I've seen Christians pass around a list of offensive Koran sayings, and though some are pretty bad, one of the ones on the list is one that says that all non-believers will go to hell. You see the problem here...
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think part of this discussion comes from the observation that the Arab word, even used by Arab Christians, for "God" is "Allah". If that's TRUE, that the Arab word "Allah" means "God", then we look at overall context.

                  Those Arab Christians who call God "Allah", do, in my opinion, worship the same God.

                  The Muslims, however, who worship the version of "Allah" as defined by Islam, clearly do not worship the same God.
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                  • #10
                    well ilah means "god" and Allah means "the God" so the word itself means God. But that doesn't answer whether "the God" they worship is "the God" we worship, or that Arab Christians worship. Just that you can't simply say "Allah" is a different God.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      So do every other cult, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism.
                      You have a point, but what I know of the history of Islam doesn't fit well with it being a Christian unorthodox cult, unless you throw out Mohammed as a historical figure.

                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      I'd like to see some more sources than anti-Islam polemic sites; the reason is because there are similar anti-Christian polemic sites that say the exact same thing about 1 Kings 22:22. (I believe this CAN be explained so it doesn't mean that God lies, but Muslims have their own interpretations, too. We need to be fair.)
                      Did you go and read the site? They cite Muslim interpretations from Muslim scholars both new and old in their material, and go into why the "nicer" interpretations don't stand up to scrutiny.

                      There's also the notorious problem of "taqiyyah", and I have witnessed it myself in my own search into Islam. Any hard questions were swept away, and in one case I was actually hung up on(this case was a live chat for answering questions on Islam). I pointed out what makr means, and that Allah was dishonest with his own followers. The conversations was immediately closed.

                      Semi-tangent: I've noticed that sometimes Christians are too uncritical in the arguments they use against Islam because they use ones that can be used against Christianity, too. I've seen Christians pass around a list of offensive Koran sayings, and though some are pretty bad, one of the ones on the list is one that says that all non-believers will go to hell. You see the problem here...
                      I've seen said problem, and I do everything I can to avoid doing such myself. I don't recall the source I'm currently using falling prey to that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        You have a point, but what I know of the history of Islam doesn't fit well with it being a Christian unorthodox cult, unless you throw out Mohammed as a historical figure.
                        I didn't mean it started as a Christian cult directly. I guess a better way of putting it was that Mohammed was influenced by living around some unorthodox Christians and got some pretty odd ideas from them. I believe one of his wives was an unorthodox Christian.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I didn't mean it started as a Christian cult directly. I guess a better way of putting it was that Mohammed was influenced by living around some unorthodox Christians and got some pretty odd ideas from them. I believe one of his wives was an unorthodox Christian.
                          Ah, okay. That clarifies things. I would agree with that. I think it was his wife's cousin who was the unorthodox one. He also got some strange ideas from the local pagans too it would seem.

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                          • #14
                            I sway with the Catholic Church on this one. I think Muslims are doing their best to Worship God. I think they do not understand him and are blinded by false belief, but I do believe they do acknowledge God.
                            A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                            George Bernard Shaw

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Catholicity View Post
                              I sway with the Catholic Church on this one. I think Muslims are doing their best to Worship God. I think they do not understand him and are blinded by false belief, but I do believe they do acknowledge God.
                              So good intentions count? Every religion wants to do their best to worship God, or Gods, or Goddesses. That doesn't mean they acknowledge the same God we do, or worship him, or even want to worship him. Sincerely wrong is still wrong.

                              Comment

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