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What to expect from God and Apostasy

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  • What to expect from God and Apostasy

    A testimony from getting away from masturbation addiction:

    http://www.reddit.com/r/NoFap/commen...ort_long_post/

    Benefits - About will power and religion

    This last point may not sit well with religious folk, but please just hear me out. I used to be super religious. I was a full time Christian college minister. Long story short, I developed a disdain for Christianity after working in full-time ministry and have since left the faith for now. This impacted my journey with abstaining from PMO and my will power significantly. When I was religious, I would try to stop PMO because I knew it was wrong, but more importantly, because God thought it was wrong. I and any communities of Christians trying to stop PMOing that I was a part of at some point would always fail, and I'd/we'd rely on praying to God for strength to become stronger. In some ways I think this affected our will power because we were not fully taking responsibility for our actions. We were hoping God would do some of the work for us. Also, because we were doing this to try to please God in some ways, we never really developed strong personal ownership in wanting to leave PMO - it was always shared with our need to do what someone else (God) says. Once I 100% owned the fact that I wanted to stop doing PMO for myself and that I would only have my will power to rely on in order to quit in conjunction with the encouragement from the nofap community, I finally feel strong enough to take on the urges. I have been successful, and I know it can all go away in a moment, so I am hoping to be diligent every day in continuing this success in the future without religion, as it seemed to hold me back in this instance.

    To wrap all of this up, I really want to thank everyone on here that have contributed to the content of our sub and for anyone who has dialogued with me as we are trying to grow. I know I could not find it in myself to change without the boost of this community at the start here. I want to eventually become less dependent on this sub, but I never want to fully leave it because it has helped and I want to help others who were in the same spot as I. Here's to another day, another month, and eventually a year of success of nofap!



    What do you think is the junction between personal responsibility and prayer? How much do you think man should expect from God?

  • #2
    I do not think we can expect to be delivered by God if we still actively fight against said delivery. While God gives us the strength to do what we cannot do on our own, we must open ourselves up to be transformed in the first place.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      I'll just throw this out there: I think when one is actively in the faith, the propensity to sin is that much stronger as I believe we have demonic forces exasperating the desire to sin. Now with that said, I actually agree that many people do take an airy-fairy disposition and expect God to act without much coming from their side.

      "So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13).
      Last edited by Scrawly; 12-20-2014, 05:56 AM.

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      • #4
        Yet another opportunity to use one of my favorite quotes, this one from Saint Augustine.

        "Pray as though everything depended on God. Work as though everything depended on you."

        I can't overstate how much I attest to that in my own life.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Not sure how much success the person has had - he just seems more confident of success now. And I think the guy simply doesn't like to be obedient to others, and wants to be in charge himself.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • #6
            1 John 1:9, there is what God does for each of us we cannot do for our selves.
            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              1 John 1:9, there is what God does for each of us we cannot do for our selves.
              But you're still called to fight temptations, to be contrite over sins you commit and grow in virtue. You can't do this without God's help, especially not in the theological virtues, however if you're not doing this, you're not one of the elect, period.

              At least there is every reason to then question the persons faith and salvation.
              Last edited by Leonhard; 12-21-2014, 01:02 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by johngalt1 View Post
                What do you think is the junction between personal responsibility and prayer? How much do you think man should expect from God?
                Cow Poke and One Bad Pig have made all the salient points. I can only add the Catholic point that God only makes these graces possible for a person, if that person won't join their will to it then it won't happen. God makes it possible for you to win the fight, he rarely fights the fight for you. In Catholic pious legends he's only done that on a very small number of cases. Sct. Thomas Aquinas was given deliverance from concupiscence after successfully resisting strong attempts at tempting him, however for the no less virtuous Sct. Alphonsus de Ligouri maintaining his sexual purity was a life long battle.
                Last edited by Leonhard; 12-21-2014, 01:45 PM.

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                • #9
                  Why use the term apostasy?
                  That's what
                  - She

                  Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                  - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                  I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                  Stephen R. Donaldson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    That person left the faith after being disgusted at what happened at full-time ministry when he was a Christian. I did have a discussion with the person and said that emotional or personal reasons do not have any relevance to the truth of Christianity. And he complains that I am shoving religion down his throat as well as considering me a sanctimonious bigot.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      Why use the term apostasy?
                      Legitimate question. The guy quoted in the OP doesn't seem to draw any connection between his apostasy and his masturbation issue (in fact, it doesn't even really say why he apostasized but strongly suggests it had nothing to do with that.)
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by johngalt1 View Post
                        That person left the faith after being disgusted at what happened at full-time ministry when he was a Christian. I did have a discussion with the person and said that emotional or personal reasons do not have any relevance to the truth of Christianity. And he complains that I am shoving religion down his throat as well as considering me a sanctimonious bigot.
                        So, what happens if he has an epiphany and repents? According to Hebrews, he would be unable to return to Christ if he were an apostate. I don't think apostasy is the proper term to use here.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          So, what happens if he has an epiphany and repents? According to Hebrews, he would be unable to return to Christ if he were an apostate. I don't think apostasy is the proper term to use here.
                          Yeah, I think there's a big difference between "backslider" and apostate.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            Yeah, I think there's a big difference between "backslider" and apostate.
                            ,
                            ". . . But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." -- Hebrews 10:39.
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              ,
                              ". . . But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." -- Hebrews 10:39.
                              We can play scripture wars all day long -- "backsliding" is actually mentioned in the Bible a number of times.

                              Are you comfortable judging when a Christian has gone past "backsliding" and is an "apostate"?
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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