Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Time to Rend?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    There was a time when America at least paid lip service to Christian morality. If our modern media is any indication, we stopped pretending years ago.
    I think the point they're getting at was that in those years, the US had either slavery and/or Jim Crow firmly entrenched into our culture so it looks pretty bad for us to look wistfully at those not-so-halcyon days.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      I think the point they're getting at was that in those years, the US had either slavery and/or Jim Crow firmly entrenched into our culture so it looks pretty bad for us to look wistfully at those not-so-halcyon days.
      I think, though, that its important to keep in mind that it was Christian abolitionists and Christian civil rights leaders who paved the way in moving America towards actual Christian values, even if their ideological opponents claimed the same faith. Today its secular, often non-religious, and even anti-religious leaders paving the way towards a more humanist tomorrow for America.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        I think, though, that its important to keep in mind that it was Christian abolitionists and Christian civil rights leaders who paved the way in moving America towards actual Christian values, even if their ideological opponents claimed the same faith. Today its secular, often non-religious, and even anti-religious leaders paving the way towards a more humanist tomorrow for America.
        That is definitely a nuance that helps. I fear that many people just think that America in general was "much better off" in the old days and overlooking some more positive changes that have occurred over time. It's been a mixed bag, though, no doubt about it.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I think the point they're getting at was that in those years, the US had either slavery and/or Jim Crow firmly entrenched into our culture so it looks pretty bad for us to look wistfully at those not-so-halcyon days.
          I do think that the US was overall better in those earlier days. Was it perfect? Not close. The race issue was a big blotch on our record, but Christians and folks generally in agreement worked to improve things. There seems to be a gap in your argument though. The race issue was improving. The overall moral fiber of the nation was declining. Today our culture in America seems to be basically evil and filthy. I know that is an exaggeration but . . .

          Abortion has gone from uncommon and illegal, to common and legal. Many people seem to recognize that they are killing a human being in an abortion - though some of the arguments here on TWeb don't follow that. Even so they say it is okay, and now it is becoming more acceptable to consider "after birth" abortion. That is truly evil.

          Sexual behavior has never lived up to the ideals, but today the ideals are largely ignored by our culture. Anything goes now days. And the discussion is completely open and above board. Homosexual marriage is in my opinion a travesty. I have no objection to homosexuals doing whatever they do. I don't see why I have to approve of it. Just let them go do what they do, we do not live in a theocracy.

          Why could we not have both an improvement in race relations and maintain a moral society. I have my own opinions about that but not the topic here.

          In connection with the OP it seems it is a "time to rend" the foundations or our society. My personal opinion is the this nation is all but lost and I see no change in it's decline. Only a wholesale turn to Christ could change things, but that does not seem to be happening. We are following the pattern societies have always followed. Faith to freedom and growth, then loss of faith and decline.
          Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I'll probably answer this in parts, TM, as I have a really bad headache.

            First of all, the court cannot compel me to perform a gay marriage. Simply can't happen. They might could punish me for NOT doing it, or otherwise make life difficult, but they can't compel me to do it. I would simply refuse.
            I had overlooked the possibility of declining to obey a court order. Your point is excellent.

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Our first step was to have our attorneys guide us in revising our Constitution and Bylaws to very clearly spell out our religious beliefs, and the fact that marriage is between one man and one woman. We also refer to our Baptist Faith & Message 2000 which ALSO clearly defines "family".

            Our Church leadership is in full agreement that we will obey God rather than man, and --- there's a Texas Ranger motto that says "do the right thing and accept the consequences". That's what we're prepared to do.
            That's a good first step. A couple churches around here have done the same.

            What's the next steps your church is doing while waiting on developments? How might the leadership prepare the congregation for life is about to get rough?
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Adrift View Post
              Not to derail too much, but how is it that voting is a requirement for Christians based on "render unto Caesar"?
              Around election time, pastor use the verse to encourage the congregation to get out and vote. I was trying (unnecessarily it turns out) to avoid a derail into was I saying a Christian shouldn't vote.
              "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

              "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
                I really don't get the notion of some Christians that they ought to be able to fit in with the world. They ought to stay out of it much as possible.
                I admit this is one I don't get either. And I think this is going cause major problems in the church as members realize they can't fit into the world and church together. This is probably a result of all the church growth movements. To get members, many have lowered the cost (standards, expectations) of church member so low that now people will actually be surprised when the bill starts coming in.

                Results:
                1. They may move to a compromising church that is more socially acceptable.
                2. They quit church all together but list themselves as spiritual (to me this is the most likely result)
                3. They actually pay the bill


                It easier to get people to come join when the cost is a couple hours on Sunday and some bucks in the plate. When the costs start getting heavier, its going to be hard.

                God is using these times to burn the dross out of His Church. He wants His church to have genuine community and really make disciples. Now most churches have fellowship and teach how to be successful in life. God wants to people to be saved so a membership count doesn't impress Him much.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  In the 39 years Mrs CP and I have been married, we have never had to show our "marriage license" a single time for anything.
                  We have. I think I had to take it to work to prove she was eligible to be added to my health coverage.
                  "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                  "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I think abortion, homosexuality, and adultery are far worse crimes than slavery, so yes I would say that America was morally great in 1776-1900 or so.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I agree, Obsidian, that slavery is much worse. I was not around between 1776 and 1900. And I never suggested that things were perfect 50 years ago. Just better than today.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        The Bible allows for and even advocates slavery, just not in the form that we had it in America. The slavery we had in America was indeed wicked. But no, it was absolutely not "much worse" than what we promote today. Today, we allow for gross wickedness in virtually every area of life. And today, everyone is a slave of the State.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                          Is it time to rend the connection between Christian participation and government?
                          It would be a great error to tear down when there's no good replacement.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                            It would be a great error to tear down when there's no good replacement.
                            And enabling a dysfunctional and hostile system is good?

                            I don't know what the answer is. However the rending isn't one sided. A lot of people are trying to push Christians out of society.

                            I once heard God described as a gentlemen - if He isn't wanted, He'll just leave. Is it time for Christians to be gentlepeople and leave?
                            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              The Bible allows for and even advocates slavery, just not in the form that we had it in America. The slavery we had in America was indeed wicked. But no, it was absolutely not "much worse" than what we promote today. Today, we allow for gross wickedness in virtually every area of life. And today, everyone is a slave of the State.
                              It advocates slavery?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Exodus 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
                                35 responses
                                166 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
                                4 responses
                                49 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
                                Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
                                10 responses
                                119 views
                                1 like
                                Last Post mikewhitney  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
                                14 responses
                                71 views
                                3 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
                                13 responses
                                59 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Cow Poke  
                                Working...
                                X