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The Roots of the Hebrew Roots Movement

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  • The Roots of the Hebrew Roots Movement

    I am interested in how the TWEB crowd views the Hebrew Roots movement. For those who do not know or are vaguely familiar, I encourage you to read the following article, which I essentially agree with:

    http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrew-roots.html

    My interactions with many from this sect have forced me to conclude that the roots of this movement go back to:

    "But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." (Acts. 15:5)

    "But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage." (Gal. 2:4)

    "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears." (Acts. 20:29-30).

    These false teachers and their followers deceitfully handle the word of God, 2 Corinthians 4:2 - they preach a different gospel and possess a different Christ - 2Cor. 11:4. In corrupting the Gospel, and the churches of Christ, with their false doctrine; in observing and urging the ceremonies of the law, which were dead, and ought to be buried; and particularly circumcision in the flesh, in that part of the body which causes shame - in this they glory (1) - Galatians 6:13.

    The Apostle Paul combated these Judaizers and false Apostle's in his ministry: Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. Are they Hebrews? (2.Cor. 11:22) and he sought to unveil their true identity: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds." (2Cor. 11:14-15).

    Their mission, as servants of Satan (whether conscious or unconscious of this fact), is to draw disciples away from the gospel of grace: "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ." (2Cor. 11:3). You see, they don't understand how this can be due to the fact that, according to them, they are just encouraging "obedience to God's Torah", which is holy, and how therefore can they go wrong? Well, they fail to rightly divide the word of truth, and are therefore rejected as far as the faith is concerned, if they persist in their error.

    Thoughts and comments?

    Oh and there is a site (one among many) that highlights the errors of this movement but the interesting thing, I found, were the testimonies of those who were once ensnared in this movement. Demonic activity and a dark spiritual cloud enveloped their lives. Feel free to browse through:

    http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpr...m/testimonies/

    ----------------------------------------------------

    (1) http://www.biblecc.com/ - Gill's commentary on 2Corinthians
    Last edited by Scrawly; 12-09-2014, 08:38 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
    Thoughts and comments?
    Naturally, I think the general idea wrong. It is however an understandable reaction to the realisation that Western Christianity has by and large screened out its Jewish roots.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
      Naturally, I think the general idea wrong. It is however an understandable reaction to the realisation that Western Christianity has by and large screened out its Jewish roots.
      I agree, as does the 'gotquestions' article, that we ought not cut off our Jewish roots, but learn and benefit from that area of study, if we choose. However, the Hebrew Roots members spoken of in the OP are of a different animal. They are predominately confused Gentiles undergoing the process of being judaized by false teachers pushing false doctrine.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
        I agree, as does the 'gotquestions' article, that we ought not cut off our Jewish roots, but learn and benefit from that area of study, if we choose. However, the Hebrew Roots members spoken of in the OP are of a different animal. They are predominately confused Gentiles undergoing the process of being judaized by false teachers pushing false doctrine.
        Yes, it is likely that many of them are just accepting whatever is taught without critical research.

        I agree that it is false doctrine. However, I don't think it is at all clear that Acts (29) and 2 Corinthians refer to people who taught such doctrine.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Paprika View Post
          However, I don't think it is at all clear that Acts (29) and 2 Corinthians refer to people who taught such doctrine.
          Fair enough, though I was highlighting how the false teachers of Hebrew Roots and the false teachers of Acts 20:29 "draw away disciples" from pure and simple devotion to Christ by introducing destructive heresies - such as a "different gospel" spoken of in 2Cor. 11:4.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
            Fair enough, though I was highlighting how the false teachers of Hebrew Roots and the false teachers of Acts 20:29 "draw away disciples" from pure and simple devotion to Christ by introducing destructive heresies - such as a "different gospel" spoken of in 2Cor. 11:4.
            I would argue that because we have screened out our Jewish roots in churches we have not really addressed the centrality of the Mosaic Law, and how that has changed with the new covenant. Though this was an important topic in the New Testament, it is something that is discussed superficially in churches, if at all, and therefore it is no wonder that many believers and nonbelievers are confused on the matter.

            Comment


            • #7
              One more thing: the categories of 'ceremonial' and 'moral' laws may be helpful and accurate to at least a large extent. But Paul, for example, does not use these categories to explain how the Law stands in relation to the people of God. We should not impose our categories onto his works and screen out what is different: perhaps Paul is saying something different, or approaching the matter from a different angle.

              (A similar point holds, mutatis mutandis, for Chalcedon and the Trinity.)

              Comment


              • #8
                One main thing I don't like about the Hebrew roots movement is when they call Jesus "Yeshua" and just generally speak in foreign languages for no reason.

                Originally posted by Paprika
                But Paul, for example, does not use these categories to explain how the Law stands in relation to the people of God.
                I think he does.

                1 Corinthians 9:21
                to them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.


                Colossians 2:16-17
                Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


                Hebrews 9:9-19 (Probably written by someone else, but whatever...)
                which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                  One main thing I don't like about the Hebrew roots movement is when they call Jesus "Yeshua" and just generally speak in foreign languages for no reason.
                  Was that a joke?

                  Hebrews is generally not considered to be written by Paul. And I fail to see how "moral" and "ceremonial" categories are used in Colossians: he instead differentiates that which is a shadow of that to come.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Exploring the Hebrew roots of Christianity is essential for understanding the history of Christianity in a much deeper way. So it depends on the intent. Exploring Hebrew roots in one's ancestry in relation to one's Christian faith is pointless IMO. And sometimes it's just flat out erroneous. There's a black Hebrew movement, for example, that asserts the true Israelites were black Africans. So it's not only wrong in some cases, but it just creates unnecessary racial/ancestral discord, much like it did in Paul's day.
                    "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                      Was that a joke?

                      Hebrews is generally not considered to be written by Paul. And I fail to see how "moral" and "ceremonial" categories are used in Colossians: he instead differentiates that which is a shadow of that to come.
                      Paul is one of those who could not reasonably be considered the author of Hebrews.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                        I am interested in how the TWEB crowed views the Hebrew Roots movement. For those who do not know or are vaguely familiar, I encourage you to read the following article, which I essentially agree with:

                        http://www.gotquestions.org/Hebrew-roots.html

                        My interactions with many from this sect have forced me to conclude that the roots of this movement go back to:

                        "But some of the sect of the Pharisees who had believed stood up, saying, "It is necessary to circumcise them and to direct them to observe the Law of Moses." (Acts. 15:5)

                        "But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage." (Gal. 2:4)

                        "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears." (Acts. 20:29-30).

                        These false teachers and their followers deceitfully handle the word of God, 2 Corinthians 4:2 - they preach a different gospel and possess a different Christ - 2Cor. 11:4. In corrupting the Gospel, and the churches of Christ, with their false doctrine; in observing and urging the ceremonies of the law, which were dead, and ought to be buried; and particularly circumcision in the flesh, in that part of the body which causes shame - in this they glory (1) - Galatians 6:13.

                        The Apostle Paul combated these Judaizers and false Apostle's in his ministry: Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they descendants of Abraham? So am I. Are they Hebrews? (2.Cor. 11:22) and he sought to unveil their true identity: "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds." (2Cor. 11:14-15).

                        Their mission, as servants of Satan (whether conscious or unconscious of this fact), is to draw disciples away from the gospel of grace: "But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ." (2Cor. 11:3). You see, they don't understand how this can be due to the fact that, according to them, they are just encouraging "obedience to God's Torah", which is holy, and how therefore can they go wrong? Well, they fail to rightly divide the word of truth, and are therefore rejected as far as the faith is concerned, if they persist in their error.

                        Thoughts and comments?

                        Oh and there is a site (one among many) that highlights the errors of this movement but the interesting thing, I found, were the testimonies of those who were once ensnared in this movement. Demonic activity and a dark spiritual cloud enveloped their lives. Feel free to browse through:

                        http://joyfullygrowingingrace.wordpr...m/testimonies/

                        ----------------------------------------------------

                        (1) http://www.biblecc.com/ - Gill's commentary on 2Corinthians
                        I always thought the concept of Christians getting closer to the Jewish roots of the faith was pretty neat. I've been wanting to attend a Messianic service for awhile now, but I don't believe there's any local to me. I really haven't looked into the subject much outside of a couple documentaries. A push for a Judaizing of the church has always made me a bit cautious of the Messianic movements, but having not researched it out extensively, I wasn't sure how adamant they were on stricture to the ceremonial aspects of the Law. I always assumed that there were probably some zealots out there, but that there were also those who took an evenhanded and scriptural approach to the subject...like, you could participate in the more Jewish observances, but that it was strictly voluntary, and an emphasis was put on that voluntary aspect. But, yeah, I don't know if that's the case or not. I imagine someone somewhere is doing it like that.

                        I found, were the testimonies of those who were once ensnared in this movement. Demonic activity and a dark spiritual cloud enveloped their lives.
                        Eesh. Well that's certainly something I'd want to avoid, and would serve as good reason for me to rethink the subject.

                        Just curious, what got your attention about this subject Scrawly?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Paprika
                          Hebrews is generally not considered to be written by Paul. And I fail to see how "moral" and "ceremonial" categories are used in Colossians: he instead differentiates that which is a shadow of that to come.
                          He says that Christians should not observe Jewish dietary laws, or Jewish holidays. Other than the animal sacrifices on non-holidays, I would say that those two categories pretty much encompass the whole ceremonial law. Anyway, if we are not to observe the holiday sacrifices then it logically implies that we shouldn't sacrifice on non-holidays, either. What do you find problematic about the distinction between ceremonial law and moral law? Paul said that he was not under the Jewish law, but was still under Christ's law.

                          And it doesn't matter who wrote Hebrews.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Paul's message taken as a whole was for Jews to abide in circumcision and keep observing Torah, Gentiles to abide in uncircumcision and observe necessary moral Torah. The goal being to keep from adding to obligations since once you fully convert to become a Jew, whatever you don't do will count against you as sin. Judaizers were intent on placing that yoke on Gentiles turned to God. Eventually Paul's view dominated in Judaism since today Gentiles are encouraged to instead observe Noahide unless they can be really committed to observe all Torah.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just got done quoting Paul saying that he was not under the Jewish laws. Where did Paul teach people to get circumcised or observe any Jewish laws at all?

                              Comment

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