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Can a genuine Christian be demonized?

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  • Can a genuine Christian be demonized?

    The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

    The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.
    8
    Yes, also a saved person can become lost again.
    25.00%
    2
    No. But a saved person can become lost again.
    12.50%
    1
    Yes. But a saved person cannot once saved become lost.
    12.50%
    1
    No. Also a saved person once saved cannot become lost.
    25.00%
    2
    Do not know. But a saved person can lose salvation.l
    12.50%
    1
    Do not know. But a saved preson once saved cannot lose salvaton.
    12.50%
    1

    The poll is expired.

    . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

  • #2
    When you say "demonized" I assume you mean "possessed"?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

      The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.
      Do you mean demonized as in possessed or as in oppressed? Also, I'm not sure I agree that 1 John 4 has spiritual possession or oppression in mind exactly. Seems to me more about false prophets (who, I grant, may or may not be possessed/oppressed).

      Also, you didn't leave any room in your poll for maybe/I don't know.

      Comment


      • #4
        I concur with people, do you mean that people become possessed even though they're Christians, or do you mean that they lose their faith?

        As a Catholic I only believe that Christians can be properly called saved if and when they die in a state of grace, and go to Purgatory or Heaven depending on their state of penance at the time of death.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
          The question excludes Ephesians 4:27; Acts 5:3. Which is generally agreed upon as possible.

          The principle reason I personally do not believe a genuine Christian can be demonized is based on 1 John 4:1, 4.
          What do Eph. 4:27 and 1 John 4:1 have to do with demon possession? I am assuming that's what you meant.

          I would also need an "other" option: a being saved person can turn away from Christ (and thus would no longer be being saved). I do not believe that a being saved person can be demon possessed.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah!
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              When you say "demonized" I assume you mean "possessed"?
              The Handbook of Spiritual Warfare by Dr Ed Murphy, teaches that the Greek word translated "demon possessed" is a mistranslation, and should be translated demonized. Dr Ed Murphy teaches that Christians can be demonized. I believe he is wrong. The book is published by Thomas Nelson Publishers. Thought the book is also (with different pages numbers, no page index or verse index) available elsewhere as a PDF as a free download.

              The Greek word Harp for an example with the same Greek ending is translated "play the harp" as "demon possessed."

              Dr Murphy teaches Christians can be demonized but not demon possessed. Based on his arguement from the Greek, then, no body is ever demon possessed. So I do have a problem with his view. Also other issues too.
              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

              Comment


              • #8
                What a hodgepodge of poll options!
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't think possessed is necessary when they can be influenced and deceived just as effectively.
                  "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My wife when she was in College was "trained" in a spiritual warfare that included issues such as this. She had sessions with several people she knew to be Christian that would qualify as "Demonized". They were not possessed like what most would normally consider as demon possessed (weird voices, levitating, that kind of stuff that is considered to be normal proof of possession). But some of those sessions were pretty scary according to her...
                    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

                    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I said "I don't know," but I lean toward "Yes."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Do you mean demonized as in possessed or as in oppressed? Also, I'm not sure I agree that 1 John 4 has spiritual possession or oppression in mind exactly. Seems to me more about false prophets (who, I grant, may or may not be possessed/oppressed).

                        Also, you didn't leave any room in your poll for maybe/I don't know.
                        The Dr Murphy holds that a Christian cannot be possessed. But can be demonized (oppressed). So either understanding can be met. Dr Murphy holds all the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated, and should be translated "demonized." My no means a Christian cannot be demonized/possessed.
                        . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                          The Dr Murphy holds that a Christian cannot be possessed. But can be demonized (oppressed). So either understanding can be met. Dr Murphy holds all the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated, and should be translated "demonized." My no means a Christian cannot be demonized/possessed.
                          I would probably agree with Dr. Murphy then. I believe that Christians can be oppressed (demonized), but not possessed. Well, I hold that view currently, but I'm willing to reconsider it. I don't know if I agree with Dr. Murphy that all of the passages translated "possession" are mistranslated though. I would need to know his qualifications for making that claim, and then I'd need to see if there's general agreement among scholars on the claim.

                          So, anyways, if I had to lay my money down on one of your poll options, it would probably be "Yes. Also a saved person once saved cannot become lost." But I'm still struggling to figure out the connection between demonic possession/oppression and the durability of one's salvation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            What do Eph. 4:27 and 1 John 4:1 have to do with demon possession? I am assuming that's what you meant.

                            I would also need an "other" option: a being saved person can turn away from Christ (and thus would no longer be being saved). I do not believe that a being saved person can be demon possessed.
                            I used the term "demonized" instead of "possession" or "oppression." Ephesians 4:27 does not in my view have anything to do with either. As for 1 John 4:1, refers to demons, that all. 1 John 4:4 in my view means a Christian cannot be "demonized."
                            . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              I concur with people, do you mean that people become possessed even though they're Christians, or do you mean that they lose their faith?

                              As a Catholic I only believe that Christians can be properly called saved if and when they die in a state of grace, and go to Purgatory or Heaven depending on their state of penance at the time of death.
                              There are Christians who believe a Christian can be "demon possessed." I do not. As a Christian I believe salvation is a present possession (1 John 5:12; Ephesians 2:5, 8). The author of the book, Handbook of Spiritual Warfare, Dr Ed Murphy believes Christians can be demonized, his words. And the Bible texts translated "demon possession" are mistranslated. His view they should be translated "demonized."
                              Last edited by 37818; 11-06-2014, 03:24 PM.
                              . . . the Gospel of Christ, for it is [the] power of God to salvation to every [one] believing, . . . -- Romans 1:16.

                              . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3, 4.

                              Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1.

                              Comment

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