Jesus Was Crucified Because Disciples Were Armed, Bible Analysis Suggests

[Jesse]

Source: Newsweek

Dale Martinaccording to the Gospel of Johnpublished this month in the Journal for the Study of the New Testament.

Harold AttridgeHal TaussigBart EhrmanDead Sea ScrollsPaula FredriksenSource

© Copyright Original Source

Well this is certainly an interesting way of looking at things. I do disagree with Paula Fredriksen on one thing. The word machaira can be used for both "knife" and "sword". They probably were more akin to daggers.

[robrecht]

A 'machaira' can be a whole lot of different kinds of swords and knives, not necesarily a dagger, although that is certainly an option.

Brian Pounds had a good response:

http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...ssay-part.html

http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...snt-essay.html

I especially liked Dale Allison's response: http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...flects-on.html

[Jesse]

A 'machaira' can be a whole lot of different kinds of swords and knives, not necesarily a dagger, although that is certainly an option.

Brian Pounds had a good response:

http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...ssay-part.html

http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...snt-essay.html

I especially liked Dale Allison's response: http://historicaljesusresearch.blogs...flects-on.html

Oh. Thank you for those links robrecht.

[Obsidian]

I agree that he wasn't a pacifist. But the Bible makes it clear that the Romans didn't even want to kill him, and never charged him with anything.

[KingsGambit]

Isn't one standard pacifist argument that Jesus's commandment to carry swords (or whatever we want to call the weapons) was solely to provoke his arrest and execution?

[Jesse]

Isn't one standard pacifist argument that Jesus's commandment to carry swords (or whatever we want to call the weapons) was solely to provoke his arrest and execution?

I am not sure. I do not know much about the pacifist argument for his arrest. Though Christ's commandment to carry swords wouldn't have provoked the Romans because it was legal for citizens to be armed.

[apostoli]

I am not sure. I do not know much about the pacifist argument for his arrest. Though Christ's commandment to carry swords wouldn't have provoked the Romans because it was legal for citizens to be armed.

One aspect of the confrontation on Jesus' arrest that seems to be largely ignored, is the fact, that when Peter drew his sword and cut off the high priest's (Annas') servant, Malchus', ear, Jesus healed the temple guard!!!! And told Peter to put away his sword.... (John 18:10-11).

Of interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????

[KingsGambit]

Of interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????

What?

[seanD]

What?

I think what he means is that why make up theories about why Jesus was killed when it's told to us in the gospels? Nothing about his disciples being armed was brought up as a charge, therefore we have to disregard historical reliability of scripture and make up theories outside of scripture.

[Jesse]

I think what he means is that why make up theories about why Jesus was killed when it's told to us in the gospels? Nothing about his disciples being armed was brought up as a charge, therefore we have to disregard historical reliability of scripture and make up theories outside of scripture.

It's a good question. I think it stems from the fact that Dale Martin is so heavily invested in his "Apocalyptic Jesus" hypothesis that he tries to hold onto any strand he can think of. Even if it is something as bizarre as trying to push that Christ and his disciples were trying to start an armed revolution against the Romans.

[apostoli]

I think what he means is that why make up theories about why Jesus was killed when it's told to us in the gospels? Nothing about his disciples being armed was brought up as a charge, therefore we have to disregard historical reliability of scripture and make up theories outside of scripture.

An interesting observation: At Mt 56:52 we learn that on commanding Peter to put away his sword Jesus decreed "all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".

A more interesting observation: The same fellow that drew his sword (Peter) to supposedly defend Jesus, was prone to deny Jesus when his own existence was threatened. Possibly why Jesus at one time chastised Peter saying "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men." (Mt 16:23).

[robrecht]

An interesting observation: At Mt 56:52 we learn ...

Very interesting indeed! My Bible is missing some 30 chapters of the gospel of Matthew!

[apostoli]

Very interesting indeed! My Bible is missing some 30 chapters of the gospel of Matthew!

Oops on my part. A grand typo on my part!!!!. But if you or KingsGambit had any Biblical sensibility (intelligence), you would have corrected me and pointed me to the correct chapter for the verse I directly quoted as opposed to your desire/s to grandstand!!! The text is Mt 26:52, but I'd point out that in your interrogation you missed the point of Jesus' comment...and my comment.

[robrecht]

Oops on my part. A grand typo on my part!!!!. But if you had any Biblical sensibility (intelligence), you would have corrected me to the correct chapter for the verse I directly quoted as opposed to your desire to grandstand!!! The text is Mt 26:52, but I'd point out that in your interrogation you missed the point of Jesus' comment...and my comment.

What interrogation of mine are you referring to? I don't think I have interrogated anyone here. But, who knows, maybe I do not have intelligence to understand this? You do realize I was only joking around, right?

[One Bad Pig]

Of interest to me is why there are so many protestant ministers coming out of American seminaries who in pursuing their "qualifications" ignore what is plainly written in scripture and pursue absolute bull excrement????

"Religious Studies" =/= "seminary"

I'd lay odds that most people who pursue a Religious Studies degree are not Christians, let alone aspiring ministers.