Announcement

Collapse

Christianity 201 Guidelines

orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.

Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.

The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Quiverfull Movement

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    ''The Bible says that a wife is to submit to her husband, and the word "submit" used here carries the connotation of it being willing submission that he has earned from her. How on earth is he supposed to win submission from her by basically abusing her? There is another word for submission that could have been used if forced submission was what was called for in that verse.''

    1 peter 3:1-6
    ''3 Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 3 Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear— 4 but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God's sight is very precious. 5 For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, 6 as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening.''

    Likewise God commands husbands to Love their wives as he does the church does the man's wife earn the right to be loved?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
      Yes that's a good comparison. Although the Quiverfull movement strikes me as far more detrimental. It seems children are brought into the world as a sort of arms-race to out populate the enemy. Women therefore become little more than incubators preparing God's army for dominion over earth. The women are subjected (yes willingly, before they realize they are in a bizarre movement) to perpetual childbirth. It is an extreme form of male patriarchy - I think even Albert Mohler stated that if an able couple chooses to remain childless, well, that's tantamount to moral rebellion against God. Though I suspect even he would find the movement excessive, at least I hope so.

      Check out the gentlemen at 2:15.

      The quiverfull movement seems like a very inward-looking movement. You get almost-instant believers from your children instead of reaching outwards to your neighbors, you homeschool them, participate in a quiverfull-minded church, and raise them to be exactly like you. Now, that could be said of a lot of groups. We as humans like groups of likeminded people, and we teach our children to think like ourselves. But it seems like to me like maybe they don't get much exposure to what I would call the "real world" of people who think differently than you, of believers who believe differently, of nonbelievers, etc. I think that exposure to outsiders is important because otherwise they might be devastated later on in life when they can't deal with people who believe something different than them.

      Also, on another note, it was weird to me how the oldest daughter was doing most of the work, as far as I could tell. Like maybe I missed something, but it looked like the mom gave her 12 year old daughter too much responsibility. What was mom doing when her daughter was doing all the little ones' hair? Cooking?

      As for the OP, it is very sad that this woman left her faith and her husband. Jesus didn't major on the family, did he? Didn't he say something about how you should hate your family in comparison to your love for him(not that I think you should hate your family -no you should love them). What was his emphasis on? Was it on having a ton of babies? What should we center our lives on? For me, Jesus emphasized the kingdom. The making of disciples. This is what Christian families should major on.

      Now, if you want to have a ton of babies, that's obviously not sin, but I know a few families with a lot of kids, and some are really struggling. I think not every family needs that many kids. It's so stressful for most- and can tear husband and wife apart. For some, it's how they thrive. But I think it all comes down to heart. What is your motivation? Is it to make your name great? Is it so that people think you look good? Is it competition? Is it to glorify God? It's a complicated thing, but it looks like all the pressure caused the woman in the article to just break down. Sometimes the pressure we put on ourselves is too great.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by heartablaze View Post
        The quiverfull movement seems like a very inward-looking movement. You get almost-instant believers from your children instead of reaching outwards to your neighbors, you homeschool them, participate in a quiverfull-minded church, and raise them to be exactly like you. Now, that could be said of a lot of groups. We as humans like groups of likeminded people, and we teach our children to think like ourselves. But it seems like to me like maybe they don't get much exposure to what I would call the "real world" of people who think differently than you, of believers who believe differently, of nonbelievers, etc. I think that exposure to outsiders is important because otherwise they might be devastated later on in life when they can't deal with people who believe something different than them.

        Also, on another note, it was weird to me how the oldest daughter was doing most of the work, as far as I could tell. Like maybe I missed something, but it looked like the mom gave her 12 year old daughter too much responsibility. What was mom doing when her daughter was doing all the little ones' hair? Cooking?

        As for the OP, it is very sad that this woman left her faith and her husband. Jesus didn't major on the family, did he? Didn't he say something about how you should hate your family in comparison to your love for him(not that I think you should hate your family -no you should love them). What was his emphasis on? Was it on having a ton of babies? What should we center our lives on? For me, Jesus emphasized the kingdom. The making of disciples. This is what Christian families should major on.

        Now, if you want to have a ton of babies, that's obviously not sin, but I know a few families with a lot of kids, and some are really struggling. I think not every family needs that many kids. It's so stressful for most- and can tear husband and wife apart. For some, it's how they thrive. But I think it all comes down to heart. What is your motivation? Is it to make your name great? Is it so that people think you look good? Is it competition? Is it to glorify God? It's a complicated thing, but it looks like all the pressure caused the woman in the article to just break down. Sometimes the pressure we put on ourselves is too great.
        Amen to much of what you said here. I think however the woman was simply being obedient to the plain reading of certain passages such as 1Tim. 2:15: "But women will be saved through childbearing--if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
          Since you are unwilling to even consider that I may be right,
          That's a nice way to rationalize the trouncing you got.

          and won't even read a better explanation of my belief than I could give myself,
          Yes, why don't I go off and read a couple of books in the middle of a discussion. That's argument by weblink on steroids and I vaguely remember this kinda thing being frowned upon around here.

          I can only come to the conclusion that if we were to quote scripture at each other all day you'd still dismiss anything I said out of hand.
          I haven't dismisset anything out of hand, I explained to you why your interpretation/arguments are lacking in detail then provided counter-verses. Making the false claim that your opponent is unwilling to consider that you may be right, on the other hand, looks a lot more like "dismissing anything I said out of hand", as you might say.

          This conversation is over.
          Nah.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment

          Related Threads

          Collapse

          Topics Statistics Last Post
          Started by Thoughtful Monk, 03-15-2024, 06:19 PM
          35 responses
          166 views
          0 likes
          Last Post Cow Poke  
          Started by KingsGambit, 03-15-2024, 02:12 PM
          4 responses
          49 views
          0 likes
          Last Post Thoughtful Monk  
          Started by Chaotic Void, 03-08-2024, 07:36 AM
          10 responses
          119 views
          1 like
          Last Post mikewhitney  
          Started by Cow Poke, 02-29-2024, 07:55 AM
          14 responses
          71 views
          3 likes
          Last Post Cow Poke  
          Started by Cow Poke, 02-28-2024, 11:56 AM
          13 responses
          59 views
          0 likes
          Last Post Cow Poke  
          Working...
          X