Originally posted by Spartacus
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Should Christians use other miracles to convert others?
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The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostDon't be disingenuous about evangelization. Unless you yourself can offer a compelling explanation for why miracles happen outside of what you perceive as THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, your rhetorical ethos goes down the tubes.
I just thought other miracles could help as well. It just happened to come from a CC member. Although I will admit that I have some interest in Catholicism.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostWhere the hell did I say that I believe the Catholic Church is the one true church?
I just thought other miracles could help as well. It just happened to come from a CC member. Although I will admit that I have some interest in Catholicism.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post"disingenuous" about "evangelization"? I think you're putting severe limits on the power of the Holy Spirit. I've seen a stumbling stuttering teenage girl lead a grown woman to a saving knowledge of Christ -- the Holy Spirit was in it.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostThe Holy Spirit does what He wills, but we would still do well not to deliberately put unnecessary stumbling blocks in front of others, and being disingenuous does precisely that.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostYou're misreading me. If the RCC is irredeemably unorthodox from your point of view, it makes little sense to appeal to a miracle that points not just toward God, but Catholicism. If you seem willing to ignore the full implications of the evidence, your audience may ignore its basic implications. This doesn't necessarily require an ecclesiology so much as a theology of miracles.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI catch flack for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to the power of the Holy Spirit who draws, convinces, convicts and leads a sinner to repentance.
I guess I'm old fashioned -- just preach Jesus, Him crucified, buried and risen again, and give a consistent testimony. But, of course, there's always somebody "looking for a sign".Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYou have yet to make your case for the disingenuosishness. Merely stating that it is doesn't make it so.Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostTo tell someone else "you should take this miracle seriously" when one evidently has not done so oneself is hardly the height of integrity.-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View PostEh I said it was a strong case. After some more looking into it, if I find it good, then I will use it. Better?Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.
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Originally posted by Spartacus View PostWhat is your theology of the miraculous? Why does God allow these particular things to happen?-The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
Sir James Jeans
-This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
Sir Isaac Newton
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I googled "disingenuous." "Typically by pretending that one knows less about something than [he] really does." Nah, I aint pretending, no siree.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI catch flack for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to the power of the Holy Spirit who draws, convinces, convicts and leads a sinner to repentance.
I guess I'm old fashioned -- just preach Jesus, Him crucified, buried and risen again, and give a consistent testimony. But, of course, there's always somebody "looking for a sign".Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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