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Should Christians use other miracles to convert others?

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  • Should Christians use other miracles to convert others?

    For example, the levitation of St Joseph of Cupertino.
    Thoughts?

    I'm thinking about this because, from what I've read, it seems a strong miracle case (although I will admit that I have read little)
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

  • #2
    The question would be - how could they be so used?
    It would be necessary for the person telling the story to be considered wholly reliable before his statements would be deemed at all credible.
    Even then, it is third party witness (hearsay).
    The miracles confirmed in the Bible as true, performed by Christ and the founding apostles, and the resurrection itself are not deemed credible: how much less so miracles that don't even have the stamp of Biblical approval?
    Last edited by tabibito; 08-10-2014, 09:17 AM.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    • #3
      I catch flack for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to the power of the Holy Spirit who draws, convinces, convicts and leads a sinner to repentance.

      I guess I'm old fashioned -- just preach Jesus, Him crucified, buried and risen again, and give a consistent testimony. But, of course, there's always somebody "looking for a sign".
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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      • #4
        Why not just go for the resurrection of Christ? There's some pretty strong evidence for it and unlike the other case you mention... it has strong bearing on whether Christianity is true.

        Of course, as CP says, only the Holy Spirit can convert, and we can't just expect to tell people about this and instantly convert them. But it might be a start.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          While the resurrection is indeed the most significant of the miracles, and having wider reaching effects than any other, the miracles performed by Christ each form parts of the gospel. And the authority exercised by the founding disciples (not only the apostles) is by no means irrelevant to the gospel.
          sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I catch flack for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to the power of the Holy Spirit who draws, convinces, convicts and leads a sinner to repentance.

            I guess I'm old fashioned -- just preach Jesus, Him crucified, buried and risen again, and give a consistent testimony. But, of course, there's always somebody "looking for a sign".
            Yeah. Christians don't convert anybody. We simply relay the gospel, as stated by CP.

            And frankly, I don't think we should be seeking signs. That is what the Word of Faith movement does. Everything has to be a miracle or sign, and that just is not how God works in this day and age, because we have complete revelation in the person of Jesus and in scripture.
            Last edited by mossrose; 08-10-2014, 11:52 AM.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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            • #7
              Don't be disingenuous about evangelization. Unless you yourself can offer a compelling explanation for why miracles happen outside of what you perceive as THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, your rhetorical ethos goes down the tubes.
              Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                Don't be disingenuous about evangelization. Unless you yourself can offer a compelling explanation for why miracles happen outside of what you perceive as THE ONE TRUE CHURCH, your rhetorical ethos goes down the tubes.
                ?
                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  ?
                  If you can shrug your shoulders and get on with your life without these miracles challenging the way you think, you give your audience every excuse they need to do the same.
                  Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spartacus View Post
                    If you can shrug your shoulders and get on with your life without these miracles challenging the way you think, you give your audience every excuse they need to do the same.
                    Why would I do that? People don't readily accept the witness of the Bible - chances that they would accept a witness from other sources in support of Christianity is pretty remote.

                    And .................... one true church? ....................... woddat?
                    Last edited by tabibito; 08-10-2014, 12:27 PM.
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      I catch flack for this, but I believe it ultimately comes down to the power of the Holy Spirit who draws, convinces, convicts and leads a sinner to repentance.

                      I guess I'm old fashioned -- just preach Jesus, Him crucified, buried and risen again, and give a consistent testimony. But, of course, there's always somebody "looking for a sign".
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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                      • #12
                        His point is that it doesn't make sense for a non-Catholic to appeal to a Catholic miracle. And I agree.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                          His point is that it doesn't make sense for a non-Catholic to appeal to a Catholic miracle. And I agree.
                          I do too. Thus the thread I started awhile back about whatever happened at Fatima and what the implications of it would be if it could be demonstrated to be an authentic miracle.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            I do too. Thus the thread I started awhile back about whatever happened at Fatima and what the implications of it would be if it could be demonstrated to be an authentic miracle.
                            God can use pagans for His glory too, I don't see the problem.
                            "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                            There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              While the resurrection is indeed the most significant of the miracles, and having wider reaching effects than any other, the miracles performed by Christ each form parts of the gospel. And the authority exercised by the founding disciples (not only the apostles) is by no means irrelevant to the gospel.
                              Yeah, but you can't be saved without believing in the resurrection. I know of no scripture that says you must believe Jesus turned water into wine to be saved.

                              Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


                              But I get what you're saying.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment

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