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Jewish law, halakhah, means "go" or "walk."

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  • Jewish law, halakhah, means "go" or "walk."

    I have to ask this question when I come across the idea on the forum when someone writes that the law has been replaced - its very confusing. What do you mean that the law was replaced? In Deuteronomy 12 - the passage seems so similar to the Apostle Paul when he addresses the issue of leadership, "Moses recalls the selection of the seventy elders of Israel to help him govern the people. Because the people had grown so large and unwieldy, Moses cried out, Deuteronomy 1:12. (therefore, brothers, select from among you seven men of good reputation,but also a uniformity on leadership among the people - a walk to follow) Even at the beginning, the name was the "the Way" (Acts 9:2; 19:9;" - or to follow). Even in the book of Acts - there was some disagreement on the laws of circumcision, and kosher laws and on whether the gentiles would need to follow "all" kosher laws. So the result was, "“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well” (Acts 15:29).



    So what does this mean the law was replaced? I have read in a couple of places in scripture notes and on the subject of the law and salvation:

    "All Scripture (including the Old Testament) is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; So that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16)

    However, the law of God ("halakhah -Jewish Law,") was "added," meaning that at Mt. Sinai it was given in a codified form, in order to identify sin.- but the law didn't bring salvation ​it was ​only a way to maintain and to live a righteous life - (based on Luke 1: 6"Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly". - referring to Zechariah and Elizabeth)
    ​ ​
    the Apostle Paul adds this: 1 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

  • #2
    New Testament and New Covenant are interchangeable in context. Old Testament prophecy: Jeremiah 31: 31-34 is a good start point.
    Also the New Testament Letter to the Hebrews, particularly chapters 8 and 9, which explains the processes involved from a Hebrew perspective.
    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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    • #3
      "All Scripture (including the Old Testament) is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; So that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16)
      This is actually a reference to the Old Testament, not the New - and the translation is technically correct but misleading. A less confusing translation:
      10403012_796040603748859_4876092976671892741_n.jpg
      sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

      Comment


      • #4
        1 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
        What do you understand by this?
        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post
          What do you understand by this?
          The verse reminds me of Psalms 33 - No king is saved by the size of his army;no warrior escapes by his great strength. 17 A horse is a vain hope for deliverance; despite all its great strength it cannot save. 18 But the eyes of the Lord are on those who fear him, on those whose hope is in his unfailing love,19 to deliver them from death and keep them alive in famine.

          There were other scriptural points like for example:16Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”17“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

          18“Which ones?” he inquired. Jesus replied, “ ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19honor your father and mother,’c and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

          You and I know the entire passage,however, it is the end of the passage that is the answer:25When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (and like the Psalms - only God can bring salvation to man)


          Other scripture points would be in the book of Wisdom 16:

          6 Affliction struck them briefly, by way of warning, and they had a saving token to remind them of the commandment of your Law,
          7 for whoever turned to it was saved, not by what he looked at, but by you, the Saviour of all. 8 And by such means you proved to our enemies that you are the one who delivers from every evil.

          The pole was the Nehushtan (or Nehustan, Hebrew: נחושתן or נחש הנחושת), in the Hebrew Bible, was a sacred object in the form of a snake of brass upon a pole. The priestly source of the Torah says that Moses used a 'fiery serpent' to cure the Israelites from snakebites. (Numbers 21:4-9)

          King Hezekiah (reigned 715/716 – 687 BCE) instituted a religious iconoclastic reform and destroyed "the brazen serpent that Moses had made; for unto those days the children of Israel did offer to it; and it was called Nehushtan." (2 Kings 18:4) The tradition of naming it Nehushtan is no older than the time of Hezekiah.

          Comment


          • #6
            Try Habakkuk 2:4 ... And thanks, the answer is very good. It answers the question, "whose faith - the person's or God's?"
            Last edited by tabibito; 08-02-2014, 05:33 AM.
            sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
              Try Habakkuk 2:4 ... And thanks, the answer is very good. It answers the question, "whose faith - the person's or God's?"
              Right. Jesus said it so very well, "What is impossible with man is possible with God." The apostles in that passage, and I thought, were really questioning on "who then could be saved"

              Comment


              • #8
                Riches signifying God's favour (final part of Job, for example) it is quite a shocking declaration - even those who have God's favour can barely gain entry to heaven (if at all) - what hope does anyone else have?
                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  Riches signifying God's favour (final part of Job, for example) it is quite a shocking declaration - even those who have God's favour can barely gain entry to heaven (if at all) - what hope does anyone else have?

                  2 Esdras 8
                  "The Most High made this world for the sake of many, but the world to come for the sake of only a few. 2 But I tell you a parable, Ezra. Just as, when you ask the earth, it will tell you that it provides a large amount of clay from which earthenware is made, but only a little dust from which gold comes, so is the course of the present world. 3 Many have been created, but only a few shall be saved."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Is anything in there about a little bit of alchemy using blood to turn clay into gold?
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                      Is anything in there about a little bit of alchemy using blood to turn clay into gold?

                      Not that I know of.....


                      Getting back to the subject of the law. When at the end of days, as to compare to the beginnings of creation - Bereshith, God commands. God the creator and His creation (v.1). There follow the distinctions within the creation itself, such as the separation of heaven and earth (v.1), light and darkness (v.3), day and night (v.4), firmament and seas (v.6), the dry land and waters (vv. 9-10). Third, there is the distinction between the immobile elements of creation and those possessing locomotion (v.10ff). Fourth, there is the distinction between those elements which can only move in fixed courses (the heavenly bodies) and those which can move as they please (living creatures) (v.14ff). Finally there is the distinction between man who can even move away from the right way (i.e. has the power of moral choice) and other living creatures (vv.26-28). We are told, in effect, that the way of the universe rests upon proper distinctions whose roots go back to creation, thereby setting the stage for the subsequent discussion of the first concern of ethics and politics, namely what is the right way and how do humans organize themselves to follow it.

                      God creates by speaking. The Bible begins (v.3) by indicating the creative power of words, an idea repeated in various contexts through subsequent chapters. Here God does not command, He speaks, calls things into being, or blesses. Nor does He command His human creations but speaks to them as well (v.28). God blesses and instructs them to be fruitful and multiply but they must respond.

                      **However, God commanded Adam not to eat from the tree but the woman (and reading from scripture) responded back to the serpent, "Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we may eat;3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, G-d hath said: Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.' -

                      The law was broken and then Adam and Eve were both expelled from the garden - O.K. If man was expelled from the garden for disobedience to God's command (the 1st law) Isn't the day of Judgment based on the same thing? How could we base it any other way? What is faithfulness to God? 6 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”



                      When the Most High made the world and Adam and all who have come from him, he first prepared the judgment and the things that pertain to the judgment. 71 But now, understand from your own words—for you have said that the mind grows with us. 72 For this reason, therefore, those who live on earth shall be tormented, because though they had understanding, they committed iniquity; and though they received the commandments, they did not keep them; and though they obtained the law, they dealt unfaithfully with what they received. 73 What, then, will they have to say in the judgment, or how will they answer in the last times? 74 How long the Most High has been patient with those who inhabit the world!—and not for their sake, but because of the times that he has foreordained.”
                      Last edited by mitzi; 08-04-2014, 06:33 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'm not sure of your direction. If you are saying the law was not annulled or abrogated, you would be correct. It was however fulfilled - and as with any covenant, once it was fulfilled, it was no longer in force.

                        Or - have I misunderstood your intentions here?
                        sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mitzi View Post
                          I have to ask this question when I come across the idea on the forum when someone writes that the law has been replaced - its very confusing. What do you mean that the law was replaced? In Deuteronomy 12 - the passage seems so similar to the Apostle Paul when he addresses the issue of leadership, "Moses recalls the selection of the seventy elders of Israel to help him govern the people. Because the people had grown so large and unwieldy, Moses cried out, Deuteronomy 1:12. (therefore, brothers, select from among you seven men of good reputation,but also a uniformity on leadership among the people - a walk to follow) Even at the beginning, the name was the "the Way" (Acts 9:2; 19:9;" - or to follow). Even in the book of Acts - there was some disagreement on the laws of circumcision, and kosher laws and on whether the gentiles would need to follow "all" kosher laws. So the result was, "“For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well” (Acts 15:29).



                          So what does this mean the law was replaced? I have read in a couple of places in scripture notes and on the subject of the law and salvation:

                          "All Scripture (including the Old Testament) is God-breathed and is profitable for doctrine, for conviction, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; So that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16)

                          However, the law of God ("halakhah -Jewish Law,") was "added," meaning that at Mt. Sinai it was given in a codified form, in order to identify sin.- but the law didn't bring salvation ​it was ​only a way to maintain and to live a righteous life - (based on Luke 1: 6"Both of them were righteous in the sight of God, observing all the Lord’s commands and decrees blamelessly". - referring to Zechariah and Elizabeth)
                          ​ ​
                          the Apostle Paul adds this: 1 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.” 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.” 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
                          I believe the spiritual nature of humanity and God's Law evolves over time through revelation. There are a number of issues not yet fully revealed in any one religion over time Up until the 19th century issues like slavery, the role of women in society and under the law, relationship between religion and science, and the relationships around the world of those who believe differently. It was not until the Baha'i Faith was revealed in the mid 19th century that issues like these were dividing humanity, and in sometimes violent confrontations. The God's Law revealed under the Baha'i Faith included forbidding all forms of slavery and indentured servitude, the social and legal equality of women, mandatory education for all, and the harmony of science and religion. These spiritual laws and others are becoming the standard for today's world.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                            I'm not sure of your direction. If you are saying the law was not annulled or abrogated, you would be correct. It was however fulfilled - and as with any covenant, once it was fulfilled, it was no longer in force.

                            Or - have I misunderstood your intentions here?
                            The prophecies were fulfilled. So how could the law be fulfilled unless of course we understand this through the gospel of John when he said, "For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." The passage in the Tanakh (old Testament) that sheds some light to this would have had to been, " 3 Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a mind to understand or eyes to see or ears to hear." Actually all of Deuteronomy (Devarim).

                            Going back to the post on creation, scripture tells us of God's commands (1st, 2nd, 3rd ....etc.) and in Esdras the passage (and at the bottom of the page) quotes, "When the Most High made the world and Adam and all who have come from him, he first prepared the judgment and the things that pertain to the judgment. " After creation - God prepared a judgment day? Before Adam sin or afterwards? If the law was considered to be fulfilled - as you say - then the judgment day would have already taken place and it hasn't, yet.

                            The fulfillment of the law is the judgement day - when all life (creation) comes before God. I would think it is the completion - Unetanneh Tokef All mankind will pass before You like a flock of sheep. Like a shepherd pasturing his flock, making sheep pass under his staff, so shall You cause to pass, count, calculate, and consider the soul of all the living; and You shall apportion the destinies of all Your creatures and inscribe their verdict.

                            On Rosh Hashanah will be inscribed and on Yom Kippur will be sealed - how many will pass from the earth and how many will be created; who will live and who will die; who will die at his predestined time and who before his time; who by water and who by fire, who by sword, who by beast, who by famine, who by thirst, who by upheaval, who by plague, who by strangling, and who by stoning. Who will rest and who will wander, who will live in harmony and who will be harried, who will enjoy tranquility and who will suffer, who will be impoverished and who will be enriched, who will be degraded and who will be exalted. But Repentance, Prayer, and Charity avert the severe Decree!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Slavery was abolished in Britain, beginning in 1804 (first stage, ending actual trading) and being completed in 1834. The movement to end slavery began in the late 1700s. So Bahai didn't invent the idea.

                              The Biblical concepts of slavery are somewhat different from those we are used to, and even the Old Testament concepts aren't the same. True enough, they are still not acceptable by today's standards, but nothing like as atrocious as those that developed as the Roman Empire got into full stride.

                              After creation - God prepared a judgment day? Before Adam sin or afterwards? If the law was considered to be fulfilled - as you say - then the judgment day would have already taken place and it hasn't, yet.
                              Judgement day is independent of the covenants. It is a day set for the creation of a new Heaven and Earth, at which time the righteous will and unrighteous will be separated. Before that time there will be tribulation of a level that the world has never seen. There was a judgement day set for the end of the old covenant - but that was a judgement on those who were under that covenant, and corresponded to the advent of the messiah - where wheat was sorted from chaff. A different kind of judgement altogether, but the two judgement days can be conflated.
                              sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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