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Claim that Paul disapproves of any sex, even within marriage

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  • Claim that Paul disapproves of any sex, even within marriage

    A friend of mine from high school is now a pastor in another state, in a liberal denomination. I came across a Facebook conversation he was participating in about homosexuality in the Bible, which is NOT my focus here. His reasoning for being accepting of it included the fact that, based on 1 Corinthians 7, he believed that Paul thought that all sexual activity was inherently sinful and that as he allowed some within marriage as a concession, likewise, we could allow some homosexual activity despite what Romans 1 said. To me, this sort of view seems to fly in the face of the "opposite extreme" in 1 Corinthians 6, where Paul clearly sets some limits on sexual behavior, and the notion that sexual activity is inherently wrong seems unsupported (and that Paul is merely stating his personal preference). I am curious if the view this guy is promoting is actually commonly held at all. It seems like a really bad argument to me, but
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

  • #2
    It never ceases to amaze me the extent to which people will go to justify their goofy and/or sinful notions.


    Proverbs 14:12 (KJV) There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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    • #3
      It is no great leap to move from condemning righteous activity to approving wicked activity.

      1 Timothy 4:1-3
      Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

      Why else would the demons prohibit good things?

      Comment


      • #4
        This guy needs to learn to read what is written not what he wants to see written.
        Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
          This guy needs to learn to read what is written not what he wants to see written.
          One thing is for sure: I've told him before I've considered going to seminary, and he told me to contact him if I do for a recommendation on where to go. I do NOT plan on taking him up on his offer.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
            One thing is for sure: I've told him before I've considered going to seminary, and he told me to contact him if I do for a recommendation on where to go. I do NOT plan on taking him up on his offer.
            Smart move.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              A friend of mine from high school is now a pastor in another state, in a liberal denomination. I came across a Facebook conversation he was participating in about homosexuality in the Bible, which is NOT my focus here. His reasoning for being accepting of it included the fact that, based on 1 Corinthians 7, he believed that Paul thought that all sexual activity was inherently sinful and that as he allowed some within marriage as a concession, likewise, we could allow some homosexual activity despite what Romans 1 said. To me, this sort of view seems to fly in the face of the "opposite extreme" in 1 Corinthians 6, where Paul clearly sets some limits on sexual behavior, and the notion that sexual activity is inherently wrong seems unsupported (and that Paul is merely stating his personal preference). I am curious if the view this guy is promoting is actually commonly held at all. It seems like a really bad argument to me, but
              This is what happens when people assume the only difference between gay and straight people is who they're sexually attracted to.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                A friend of mine from high school is now a pastor in another state, in a liberal denomination. I came across a Facebook conversation he was participating in about homosexuality in the Bible, which is NOT my focus here. His reasoning for being accepting of it included the fact that, based on 1 Corinthians 7, he believed that Paul thought that all sexual activity was inherently sinful and that as he allowed some within marriage as a concession,
                Ignoring the Paul aspects, I have run into this all sex is sinful attitude in conservative circles as well. It seems to me that their view holds that any sexual relationship involves some degree of lust and therefore sin is involved even between husband and wife.

                In one way I see the point. Since we live in a sin marred world, everything is marred or distorted by sin. Even though we are saved, we are still in this sinful world and are affected by it and it may influence the saved person's actions.

                That being said, husbands and wives, enjoy yourself one with another and let God sort it out.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  One thing is for sure: I've told him before I've considered going to seminary, and he told me to contact him if I do for a recommendation on where to go. I do NOT plan on taking him up on his offer.
                  I think you should take him up on the offer. It would be a fast track to identifying some of the places to avoid.
                  sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                    Ignoring the Paul aspects, I have run into this all sex is sinful attitude in conservative circles as well. It seems to me that their view holds that any sexual relationship involves some degree of lust and therefore sin is involved even between husband and wife.

                    In one way I see the point. Since we live in a sin marred world, everything is marred or distorted by sin. Even though we are saved, we are still in this sinful world and are affected by it and it may influence the saved person's actions.

                    That being said, husbands and wives, enjoy yourself one with another and let God sort it out.
                    That would come down to a matter of definitions for lust. At the very least, it indicates an inappropriate response. With regard to sexual activity between committed partners - I take the view that it would be a matter of focussing on one's own desires to the exclusion of the partner's needs and desires.
                    Paul did say that marriage partners were not to deny each other, except for a limited time and by mutual agreement. ... Beyond an unsupported subjective interpretation, we have no evidence to suggest that Paul considered sexual desire to be inherently sinful.
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Lust refers to coveting another man's wife.

                      Romans 7:7
                      What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                        Lust refers to coveting another man's wife.

                        Romans 7:7
                        What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
                        That's not the only possible meaning; 1 Corinthians 7:9 mentions that it can occur between two unmarried individuals.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It does not specifically say that

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                            It does not specifically say that
                            It's talking about two people who are engaged to be married to each other. Obviously none of them are going to be married to other people in that case.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                              Ignoring the Paul aspects, I have run into this all sex is sinful attitude in conservative circles as well. It seems to me that their view holds that any sexual relationship involves some degree of lust and therefore sin is involved even between husband and wife.

                              In one way I see the point. Since we live in a sin marred world, everything is marred or distorted by sin. Even though we are saved, we are still in this sinful world and are affected by it and it may influence the saved person's actions.

                              That being said, husbands and wives, enjoy yourself one with another and let God sort it out.
                              I have run in conservative circles for most of my adult life and I have never once heard any one suggest such a thing. Once, many years ago my wife told me she heard someone make such a comment.
                              Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                              Comment

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