Originally posted by Cow Poke
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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Originally posted by Jedidiah View PostScrawly, I would like to take back the tentative nature of my apology. My impression that these were not really serious questions is not adequate to justify my comments. I am sorry.
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Originally posted by Truthseeker View PostNowadays, the first question I ask a stranger woman is, are you Christian? So far, I have not any date after asking that But I'll keep on asking that. What do you think?
Depending on the circumstances I would immediately then ask them why they believe they are a Christian. This would reveal a lot. Next, might be what they thought about the Bible.Last edited by foudroyant; 07-09-2014, 09:51 PM.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostWouldn't yoke simply mean "join together"? The passage in 2Cor. might not be strictly about friendship, but it does strike me as warning against being in "close relations" with unbelievers. ...
How do you interpret this passage within the immediate and broader contexts of Paul's letters to the Corinthians?
* Cross-references furnished by Furnish loc cit.Last edited by robrecht; 07-10-2014, 07:58 AM.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostI think ἑτεροζυγέω (heterozugeo) is more than simply 'joined together' but more like 'joined together with another kind in work' and likely apostolic work, given Paul's midrashic interpretation of not muzzling an ox (Deuteronomy 25,4) in 1 Corinthians 9,8-12. Here, Paul may be thinking of Deuteronomy 22,10 and perhaps Leviticus 19,19 ἑτερόζυγος (heterozygos) and again using a midrashic interpretation of being yoked to an ox for apostolic ministry. See also σύζυγος (suzugos) in Philippians 4,3.* I think that's a fairly common interpretation.
How do you interpret this passage within the immediate and broader contexts of Paul's letters to the Corinthians?
* Cross-references furnished by Furnish loc cit.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostI interpret 2Cor. 6:14-15 as literally admonishing Christian's to refrain from close relationships with unbelievers. I think one of the reasons Paul wrote the letter was definitely in response to the false teachers/apostles, however, in defending his ministry he also admonished believer's not only to refrain from partnering with the false teachers, but also to refrain from close, intimate relationships with those in the dark because there simply isn't enough common ground to share at a certain depth in interpersonal relationships between those who are in the light and those who are in the dark."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostAt least to me, the word "yoke" suggests something more formal.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostI agree, but I think he expands the scope to include all those in the dark - "Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?" (2Cor. 6:15)."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostI interpret 2Cor. 6:14-15 as literally admonishing Christian's to refrain from close relationships with unbelievers. I think one of the reasons Paul wrote the letter was definitely in response to the false teachers/apostles, however, in defending his ministry he also admonished believer's not only to refrain from partnering with the false teachers, but also to refrain from close, intimate relationships with those in the dark because there simply isn't enough common ground to share at a certain depth in interpersonal relationships between those who are in the light and those who are in the dark.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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The questions that Paul asks are not commands. We are not bound by questions, although the questions may contain wisdom. And further, the question is specifically an explanation of the command -- i.e., the command not to join in religious work with false teachers. So interpreting the question more broadly than the command is questionable anyway.
As I said before, the Bible does elsewhere discourage us from befriending fools. However, I don't know that every unbeliever would necessarily qualify as a fool.
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Those questions are being asked by way of providing support for an admonition. There is nothing in the immediate context to support the idea that this addresses "false teachers." Even if it had been addressing that issue, it would have been calling on broader issues to support an admonition with regard to the narrower.
The context for the admonition to not be unequally yokes is clearly spelt out.
2 Corinthians 6:11 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. 12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. 13 Now in return for the same (I speak as to children), you also be open. 14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?
What is the correct answer for each of the questions ... particularly the last? Even if this was an admonition regarding the choice of spouse, or association with false teachers - the admonition relies in part for support on the fact that the believer has no part with the unbeliever. Paul has expressed what he regards as factual: the believer has nothing in common with the unbeliever.Last edited by tabibito; 07-11-2014, 02:22 AM.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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The NCV is obviously different:
Last edited by Truthseeker; 07-11-2014, 11:35 AM.The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu
[T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
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The team included people with translation experience on such accepted versions as the New International Version, the New American Standard Bible, and the New King James Version.
So - how does the translation line up with the Koine text. (unless I am mistaken it uses the NU as its base - so that's what I'll go with)
2 Corinthians 6:14
Μὴ γίνεσθε ἑτεροζυγοῦντες ἀπίστοις· τίς γὰρ μετοχὴ δικαιοσύνῃ καὶ ἀνομίᾳ, ἢ τίς κοινωνία φωτὶ πρὸς σκότος;
not become to yoke (pres. part. act.) with different kind unbelieving what for partnership righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship light with darkness.
(do) not be disparately yoking with unbelievers, for what fellowship* (have) righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship (has) light with darkness.
* a close relation between partners, i.e. people sharing something held in common .. fellowship, partnership.
"You are not the same as"? ..... well - it is implicit, but it can't be said to actually translate anything in the text.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostI interpret 2Cor. 6:14-15 as literally admonishing Christian's to refrain from close relationships with unbelievers. I think one of the reasons Paul wrote the letter was definitely in response to the false teachers/apostles, however, in defending his ministry he also admonished believer's not only to refrain from partnering with the false teachers, but also to refrain from close, intimate relationships with those in the dark because there simply isn't enough common ground to share at a certain depth in interpersonal relationships between those who are in the light and those who are in the dark.βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃
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