Post Covid-19 Church Attendance

[Cow Poke]

It will be interesting to see when the smoke clears. Some of our regular older people are staying home, but other families have started showing up. I wonder if we'll lose any in the long run - though I don't see that at present. Those who are not attending seem to be faithfully watching our livestream. It appears that, when all is said and done, we'll be a bigger stronger church. We've had 6 families join during this COVID mess, and even with a bunch staying home, we're about the same attendance as before this started, or slightly more.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Here's my new thinking on this.

I think a lot of churches that were borderline on survival will close up. Over the next couple of years, the number of churches in the US will decline along with overall church attendance. This may hit rural churches really hard. It may be harder to find a church in some parts of the country and where you can find a church, you may not have the abundance of choices we've had in the past.

[Cow Poke]

Our Church has decided to suspend Children's Church for a couple Sundays, as a couple of our children contracted, or were exposed to, Covid at School
Everybody who attended (as children) or worked in Children's Church have voluntarily withdrawn from Church attendance for the time being.

This also applies to two of the three sound/video team members, one of whom is the father of one of the affected children, and another was exposed at work.

Other than that, we have been very blessed to have no other problems with Covid, so far --- we're keeping an eye on the situation all the time.

[rogue06]

An interesting piece that argues for the necessity of in-person Church services that seems somewhat relevant here

Source: Why Christianity remains an in-person religion, even in a pandemic

The COVID-19 pandemic has been a reminder for many Christians that their worship is an in-person experience at its core.

On Christmas Eve, members of Holy Comforter Episcopal Church in Tallahassee, Florida, will gather in the parking lot for a service that’s part tailgate, part worship and part family reunion.

Holy Comforter has been hosting indoor worship with strict limits on attendance since the beginning of the pandemic. But at this time in the liturgical calendar and this time in the pandemic, said the Rev. Jerry Smith, rector of Holy Comforter, people need to be together.

"We’re now Zoomed out. That’s part of the problem," said Smith. "We don’t want to sit in front of the TV screen anymore. It’s not the same as being in each other’s presence."

While many Christian congregations have moved services online and found new ways to build virtual communities, faith remains a tangible, in-person experience at its core for many.

For some churches, that’s meant going to court to challenge restrictions on in-person gatherings. For others, it means doing the best they can and keeping the faith till they can all be together again.

Holy Comforter’s leaders have followed advice from the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and local medical professionals to create services that are safe. Early in the pandemic, only 10 people were allowed in the church for one service a week. More recently, the church moved to three services, with a 25-person limit. The church also livestreams services.

Having a few more people in person gives people a taste for what they have been missing, said Smith.

"They can’t pass the peace, but we have this time in the liturgy where people are waving and smiling at each other," he said. "There’s a need to do that. I think the danger is that people get so frustrated that they throw caution to the wind. And we can’t let them do that."

The pandemic has been particularly difficult for immigrant churches, said the Rev. Dieufort Fleurissaint of the Haitian Evangelical Pastors Association. Already facing economic challenges, a lack of resources and sometimes issues relating to their citizenship status, many immigrants regard church as one place where they can gather to share their burdens while rejoicing as well. They rely on singing and prayer, as well as hugs and embraces from each other, to keep their faith strong.

Just holding hands to pray can be powerful, he said.

"We are a community of fellowship," he said. "It brings great spiritual benefit when we can gather together."

The Rev. Laura Everett, executive director of the Massachusetts Council of Churches, has been reminded in the pandemic that Christianity is not just a set of ideas, but a set of practices and relationships that have been muted or changed by the pandemic.

The past nine months have been the longest that Everett has been absent from a church since she had a conversion experience as an eighth-grader. She misses the chaos and the mess of worship services but particularly the common, small acts of grace that come from in-person connection: putting her hand on someone, for instance, who has been sick, and praying for their healing.

"I have missed that echo of voices when we say the Lord’s Prayer, those well-worn words where my voice will drop out sometimes because I am so tired or so sad and other people carry the prayer for me," she said.

"I know that can happen on Zoom and it does. But I miss sitting next to them. I miss the smell of old lady perfume and the sound of cough drops being unwrapped, the smell of incense, the call and response and talk back."

Kevin Singer attends and helps lead worship at a campus of Vintage Church in Raleigh, North Carolina. The church, made up of mostly younger families and young professionals, has a contemporary worship style and meets in the gymnasium of a Christian school.

The church has been meeting in person, with chairs set up in clusters, Singer said, and people conscientiously keep their distance.

That makes the longing for community and connection even deeper, he said. "There is always that feeling of, I wish I could take this mask off and give you a hug," he said.

People dart out of the building after services, instead of hanging around for what he called "the mingling of souls," which happens in more normal times. And during the service, he feels as if they are all passive observers rather than participants. He likens it to “Christian karaoke.”

Singer also said that COVID-19 has made people suspicious of each other as a potential threat to their health. That makes the intimacy and vulnerability among friends in a congregation difficult.

"You can’t be vulnerable without the sense that I should not be this close to you," he said.

The Rev. Constance Cherry, professor emeritus of worship and pastoral ministry at Indiana Wesleyan University, said many worship leaders and pastors are concerned about the long-term effects of moving from in-person worship to online services. Will people return, she wonders, when bans are lifted? Or will they prefer to take part online?

Worship in many Protestant churches, especially evangelical churches, Cherry said, has become a spectator experience, something "leaders do for the congregation."

"What you have ended up with, in hundreds of churches and across denominations, are people up front, on a stage, producing worship for the pleasure of the people," she said. "To me, this has put an exclamation point on a problem we already had."

Vanessa White, associate professor of spirituality and ministry at Catholic Theological Union in Chicago, said online worship has separated people not only from each other but from the rhythms of worship — of getting dressed, leaving the house and going to a sacred space at a specific time with a specific group of people.

She goes to her parish to serve as a lector one week out of the month, reading some of the Bible texts for Mass. The other weeks, she watches online — but not in casual clothes from her couch. Instead, she tries to set up a sacred space at home, as she does when leading virtual retreats.

Before Mass starts, she clears off her living room table and puts a cloth on it, then a candle and cross. She dresses up and picks up a book of Bible readings, so she’s ready to take part. White said that worship involves signs and symbols, along with prayers and other actions.

That’s something she wants other worshipers to remember.

"We are people of sign and symbol," she said. "Just because you are in this virtual time frame, it’s like we are throwing out the signs and symbols. We don’t have to do that."


Source

© Copyright Original Source

[mikewhitney]

The reminder of comfort for those who meet in person...

The coronavirus testing in the United States has a reported 97% false positive.

The analysis by 22 doctors is found at https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

Source: https://cormandrostenreview.com/report/

In case of virus detection, >35 cycles only detects signals which do not correlate with infectious virus as determined by isolation in cell culture [reviewed in 2]; if someone is tested by PCR as positive when a threshold of 35 cycles or higher is used (as is the case in most laboratories in Europe & the US), the probability that said person is actually infected is less than 3%, the probability that said result is a false positive is 97%

© Copyright Original Source

So most tests in the United States are being done with 40. The number of cycles is the number of doubling of the sampling so I think 25-30 is the already on the high end. Above that, a totally innocuous amount of coronavirus is detected. As such, if a person is not symptomatic but has a positive test result, the positive result is meaningless. Please review the analysis at the website to understand things better. I only provided the critical observation that is easiest to understand.

[Thoughtful Monk]

Our Church has decided to suspend Children's Church for a couple Sundays, as a couple of our children contracted, or were exposed to, Covid at School
Everybody who attended (as children) or worked in Children's Church have voluntarily withdrawn from Church attendance for the time being.

This also applies to two of the three sound/video team members, one of whom is the father of one of the affected children, and another was exposed at work.

Other than that, we have been very blessed to have no other problems with Covid, so far --- we're keeping an eye on the situation all the time.

Glad to read you're being prudent. Hope everyone gets well quickly and no more spread.

In one way also, no surprise. Here in NY, through contract tracing they found only 0.69% of the cases came from religious activities.

[Thoughtful Monk]

At that risk of derailing this thread, below is what I think is the most import part of Rogue06's post. If you wish to continue the discussion on the sentence, please start a new thread.

Worship in many Protestant churches, especially evangelical churches, Cherry said, has become a spectator experience, something "leaders do for the congregation."

"What you have ended up with, in hundreds of churches and across denominations, are people up front, on a stage, producing worship for the pleasure of the people," she said. "To me, this has put an exclamation point on a problem we already had."

Source[/cite]

[Cow Poke]

Glad to read you're being prudent. Hope everyone gets well quickly and no more spread.

In one way also, no surprise. Here in NY, through contract tracing they found only 0.69% of the cases came from religious activities.

So far, it appears we are making wise decisions. And I'm being extra careful since I'm "the guy" with whom everybody would have contact if I did the standard "stand at the back after church and shake hands" thing.

[phat8594]

For what it is worth -- my church has been fully opened (indoors with option of outdoors, though few do outside -- as well as online) and it is growing.

And double for what it is worth, our pastor made the point (right before reopening) that our church had seen somewhere between 5-10 deaths because of COVID, but NOT of COVID (0 deaths due to actual COVID). IOW, the deaths came from suicide, relapse into drugs, misdiagnosis at hospitals due to COVID measures, etc.

Point is people NEED community -- we are not meant to do life alone. If the church is to the light of the world, we need to be open.

[Cow Poke]

For what it is worth -- my church has been fully opened (indoors with option of outdoors, though few do outside -- as well as online) and it is growing.

And double for what it is worth, our pastor made the point (right before reopening) that our church had seen somewhere between 5-10 deaths because of COVID, but NOT of COVID (0 deaths due to actual COVID). IOW, the deaths came from suicide, relapse into drugs, misdiagnosis at hospitals due to COVID measures, etc.

Point is people NEED community -- we are not meant to do life alone. If the church is to the light of the world, we need to be open.

Our congregation is actually growing -- we STILL have room to spread out even with the additional families, and we're encouraging distancing and proper hygiene. With our regulars (mostly older people) watching from home, plus our "in house" crowd - we are seeing a pretty substantial growth in membership.

Several of the new families have told me it's because of my insistence that "we need to be careful, but we're still going to 'be the church' that people need".

[Thoughtful Monk]

Our congregation is actually growing -- we STILL have room to spread out even with the additional families, and we're encouraging distancing and proper hygiene. With our regulars (mostly older people) watching from home, plus our "in house" crowd - we are seeing a pretty substantial growth in membership.

Several of the new families have told me it's because of my insistence that "we need to be careful, but we're still going to 'be the church' that people need".

I'm glad for your church. I pray it will continue.

Out of curiosity, what are the demographics of your new membership - mainly I'm thinking age ranges but anything else you might want to share.

[Cow Poke]

I'm glad for your church. I pray it will continue.

Out of curiosity, what are the demographics of your new membership - mainly I'm thinking age ranges but anything else you might want to share.

That's what's interesting --- most of the new people are "families" - with children and/or teenagers. That's a demographic that had been pretty lacking.
Most of our "pre-Covid" congregation was older.

Heck, when I first came to this Church, my wife and I were the YOUTH group! (And we were in our early 60's then)

The thing I keep reminding our Church --- when this is all over (if it ever is over) it's going to be interesting when the Church all gets back together.
Because the "new people" are going to think that the old people coming back to church are "new".

Some of the "new people" are taking over responsibilities (much appreciated) that some of the folks who have not been coming to Church used to do.

I'm reminding our "older folks" that this is GOOD --- that it's healthy and needs to be embraced.
I'm reminding our "newer folks" that it's always possible that our "older folks" might feel resentment, so let's keep an eye on that, and be sure to mitigate it where possible.

I supposed it's like managing a "blended family" (your kids, my kids and our kids) and making it work.

So far - it's going GREAT!

[One Bad Pig]

Our congregation is actually growing -- we STILL have room to spread out even with the additional families, and we're encouraging distancing and proper hygiene. With our regulars (mostly older people) watching from home, plus our "in house" crowd - we are seeing a pretty substantial growth in membership.

Several of the new families have told me it's because of my insistence that "we need to be careful, but we're still going to 'be the church' that people need".

We're growing as well, even though we don't have the space for everyone; most people can only attend every three weeks.

[Cow Poke]

We're growing as well, even though we don't have the space for everyone; most people can only attend every three weeks.

Are you considering multiple services? We're looking at that.

[One Bad Pig]

Are you considering multiple services? We're looking at that.

We considered that for Christmas if we couldn't get everybody in who wanted to attend, but we managed to shoehorn everyone in by creative manipulation of the worship space (turns out to not be very feasible weekly). A priest can only do one liturgy per day, so we can't really do multiple services (Christmas would have worked because there is supposed to be a liturgy Christmas Eve followed by one Christmas Day, though most parishes only do one of them).