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Does God Kill Us?

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  • Does God Kill Us?

    When an individual dies is that because God decides to take him/her out on the particular day/time. Or are most deaths simply random - the on going result of the fall and our mortal nature?
    Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

  • #2
    Some of both. Complicated question asking for a simple answer.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
      Some of both. Complicated question asking for a simple answer.
      That is why I'm asking opinions...
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #4
        The answer is, yes, sometimes he kills people. Sometimes he also extends people's lives. The majority of the time I would say that he does not.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by seer View Post
          When an individual dies is that because God decides to take him/her out on the particular day/time. Or are most deaths simply random - the on going result of the fall and our mortal nature?
          I think this question has a couple of parts: Did God when he punished Adam and Eve, kill them? And does God in general kill people?

          The answer to the second question is obviously yes: God killed Ananias and Saphira Acts 4:32, God is Sovereign. He rules life and death. And He has punished with death at times.

          The answer to the first question is more interesting though. My personal interpretation is that Adam and Eve were granted with a special gift of God's blessing, so they wouldn't age or suffer, and the world was easy to work for them. It wasn't a gift they deserved, but it was a special boon God had granted them. After they betrayed God, He withdrew this special gift from them. Without that blessing Man's body starts decaying; Its no longer protected from the natural forces, or from the inevitable effects of entropy. It corrupts, and decays until it can't sustain life anymore.

          So God tells them that they will inevitably return to the soil as a consequence of what they've done. Its a diagnosis, but death here is a secondary effect of the punishment. Being perfect, God foresees everything, and being perfectly Good He desires only good for his children, so we immediatly see God laying the plan for Salvation, and makes the famous promise to Eve that her offspring would crush the head of the serpent under its heel.

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          • #6
            We mustn't forget Annanias and Sapphira. God did kill them because they lied to the Holy Spirit. And you can bet that people thought twice about joining the church after witnessing that judgment.

            I personally believe that God takes us in His timing. I have seen people do all they can do to live a healthy lifestyle and drop dead of a heart attack at age 29. I have seen horribly unhealthy people live for years beyond what you think they will be alive.

            I have no scriptural basis for this. At least that I can think of right now. But I believe that my days are in His hands and that He will allow me to live as long as HE pleases.


            Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
              The answer to the first question is more interesting though. My personal interpretation is that Adam and Eve were granted with a special gift of God's blessing, so they wouldn't age or suffer, and the world was easy to work for them. It wasn't a gift they deserved, but it was a special boon God had granted them. After they betrayed God, He withdrew this special gift from them. Without that blessing Man's body starts decaying; Its no longer protected from the natural forces, or from the inevitable effects of entropy. It corrupts, and decays until it can't sustain life anymore.

              So God tells them that they will inevitably return to the soil as a consequence of what they've done. Its a diagnosis, but death here is a secondary effect of the punishment. Being perfect, God foresees everything, and being perfectly Good He desires only good for his children, so we immediatly see God laying the plan for Salvation, and makes the famous promise to Eve that her offspring would crush the head of the serpent under its heel.
              This is why I asked. I had a friend whose 10 year old son died of natural causes - out of the blue. The pastor said it was God's will and God wanted the child in heaven. Suggesting that God was the immediate cause of the boy's death. I would see it more of the natural result of the fall - our inherent mortality. That God did not choose the child then cause him to die.
              Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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              • #8
                I have wrestled with Job 14:5 a bit and am satisfied with the conclusion that we cannot live any longer than what God has determined for us to live but we can die sooner!

                “Since his days are determined,
                The number of his months is with You [in Your control],
                And You have made his limits so he cannot pass [his allotted time].

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by seer
                  This is why I asked. I had a friend whose 10 year old son died of natural causes - out of the blue. The pastor said it was God's will and God wanted the child in heaven.
                  Very doubtful that God would take the boy just because he "wanted the child in heaven." God doesn't pick and choose everyone's time of death. Also, it's pretty doubtful that he was punishing the boy for anything, given that he was just a young child. There is at least a possibility that he was punishing the parents for something, I suppose. But the best guess is that it was just random, as you said.

                  In Job 1, Job's kids are killed because God stops protecting Job's family, but Job's own life is still protected because he was very righteous. So we can see that the kids were not killed for any sins. Nor were they killed to punish Job. But on the other hand, they were unprotected from Satan. Presumably, if they had been as righteous as Job, they would have been protected the same way he was. It's an interesting phenomenon to think about.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And when I say "random," that includes all sorts of unknown factors in addition to pure randomness. For example, this nation is under the curse of God due to various gross sins. There are collective judgments. It could be that the kid died from some health problem that God would've eliminated from society by now if America weren't so wicked.

                    Eventually most of these problems will be greatly reduced, even before the resurrection:

                    Isaiah 65:19-20
                    19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
                    and joy in my people:
                    and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her,
                    nor the voice of crying.
                    20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days,
                    nor an old man that hath not filled his days:
                    for the child shall die an hundred years old;
                    but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                      Very doubtful that God would take the boy just because he "wanted the child in heaven." God doesn't pick and choose everyone's time of death. Also, it's pretty doubtful that he was punishing the boy for anything, given that he was just a young child. There is at least a possibility that he was punishing the parents for something, I suppose. But the best guess is that it was just random, as you said.

                      In Job 1, Job's kids are killed because God stops protecting Job's family, but Job's own life is still protected because he was very righteous. So we can see that the kids were not killed for any sins. Nor were they killed to punish Job. But on the other hand, they were unprotected from Satan. Presumably, if they had been as righteous as Job, they would have been protected the same way he was. It's an interesting phenomenon to think about.
                      These questions have hit me hard lately, at 66 I should expect such things. I just left the wake of another friend. That is eight in the last two years. I have known most over fifty years - most died of natural causes, one by suicide, two by fentanyl over doses. One, possibly two, were believers...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In this world people got troubles. Health troubles are part of that. Sometimes folks will up and die. Still things are not hopeless. God still knocks on the hearts of people. Medicine is eradicating diseases. Sometimes you get honest to goodness miracles.

                        That is my take.
                        sigpic

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                        • #13
                          I think the bible pretty much makes it clear that the supernatural influences everything in the natural including sickness, disease, and death. Of course, usually us modern folks just brush that off as a bunch of ancient ignorant Hebrews not having the medical knowledge we have, but I believe it's still true. The problem is multi-layered though. The first problem is we don't know where that connection -- where the invisible supernatural meets the visible natural -- happens. To us, for example, the onslaught of sickness and disease just looks like they come natural. To the ancients it probably looked a whole lot less complicated than it does to us, but at some point the supernatural has influence, we just don't know how and where. The second issue is how much God has a direct hand in that. We know God allows supernatural entities to influence the natural as long as they follow his direction, but does he ever actually do this with his direct hand?

                          Long story short, it would be impossible for us to answer.
                          "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

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                          • #14
                            God gives life and he has the authority to take it (1st Samuel 2:6; Job 14:5; Hebrews 9:27).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
                              God gives life and he has the authority to take it (1st Samuel 2:6; Job 14:5; Hebrews 9:27).
                              And you might add Daniel 5:23 here as well: "... you did not honor the God who holds in his hand your life-breath and all your ways."

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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