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Laminin and the Cross

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  • Laminin and the Cross

    I came across this very interesting video.

    Please note, I do NOT recommend using this as "proof" of Creation - for that, we rely on the truth of the Word of God.

    I just found it very interesting.

    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

  • #2
    Also, I'll be quick to point out that the video indicates that laminin is "in the perfect shape of a cross". That's not exactly correct -- the scientific schematic, or representation, of laminin appears very much like a cross. The actual molecule is much less defined.

    laminin.jpeg As opposed to microscopic laminin.jpg
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #3
      Since every party requires the prerequisite pooper:


      From Christian Post:

      Source: The Laminin's Cross-Shape Does Not Make the Case for the Christian Faith


      As I interact with people on social media and travel around the country to speak on the biochemical evidence for a Creator, I am frequently asked to comment on laminin.The people who mention this protein are usually quite excited, convinced that its structure provides powerful scientific evidence for the Christian faith. Unfortunately, I don't agree.

      Motivating this unusual question is the popularized claim of a well-known Christian pastor that laminin's structure provides physical evidence that the God of the Bible created human beings and also sustains our lives. While I wholeheartedly believe God did create and does sustain human life, laminin's apparent cross-shape does not make the case.

      Laminin is one of the key components of the basal lamina, a thin sheet-like structure that surrounds cells in animal tissue. The basal lamina is part of the extracellular matrix (ECM). This structure consists of a meshwork of fibrous proteins and polysaccharides secreted by the cells. It forms the space between cells in animal tissue. The ECM carries out a wide range of functions that include providing anchor points and support for cells.

      Laminin is a relatively large protein made of three different protein subunits that combine to form a t-shaped structure when the flexible rod-like regions of laminin are fully extended. Each of the four "arms" of laminin contains sites that allow this biomolecule to bind to other laminin molecules, other proteins (like collagen), and large polysaccharides. Laminin also provides a binding site for proteins called integrins, which are located in the cell membrane.

      Laminin's architecture and binding sites make this protein ideally suited to interact with other proteins and polysaccharides to form a network called the basal reticulum and to anchor cells to its biochemical scaffolding. The basal reticulum helps hold cells together to form tissues and, in turn, helps cement that tissue to connective tissues.

      The cross-like shape of laminin and the role it plays in holding tissues together has prompted the claim that this biomolecule provides scientific support for passages such as Colossians 1:15–17 and shows how the God of the Bible must have made humans and continues to sustain them.

      I would caution Christians against using this "argument." I see a number of problems with it. (And so do many skeptics.)

      First, the cross shape is a simple structure found throughout nature. So, it's probably not a good idea to attach too much significance to laminin's shape. The t configuration makes laminin ideally suited to connect proteins to each other and cells to the basal reticulum. This is undoubtedly the reason for its structure.

      Secondly, the cross shape of laminin is an idealized illustration of the molecule. Portraying complex biomolecules in simplified ways is a common practice among biochemists. Depicting laminin in this extended form helps scientists visualize and catalog the binding sites along its four arms. This configuration should not be interpreted to represent its actual shape in biological systems. In the basal reticulum, laminin adopts all sorts of shapes that bear no resemblance to a cross. In fact, it's much more common to observe laminin in a swastika configuration than in a cross-like one. Even electron micrographs of isolated laminin molecules that appear cross-shaped may be misleading. Their shape is likely an artifact of sample preparation. I have seen other electron micrographs that show laminin adopting a variety of twisted shapes that, again, bear no resemblance to a cross.

      Finally, laminin is not the only molecule "holding things together." A number of other proteins and polysaccharides are also indispensable components of the basal reticulum. None of these molecules is cross-shaped.

      As I argue in my book, The Cell's Design, the structure and operation of biochemical systems provide some of the most potent support for a Creator's role in fabricating living systems. Instead of pointing to superficial features of biomolecules such as the "cross-shaped" architecture of laminin, there are many more substantive ways to use biochemistry to argue for the necessity of a Creator and for the value he places on human life. As a case in point, the salient characteristics of biochemical systems identically match those features we would recognize immediately as evidence for the work of a human design engineer. The close similarity between biochemical systems and the devices produced by human designers logically compels this conclusion: life's most fundamental processes and structures stem from the work of an intelligent, intentional Agent.

      When Christians invest the effort to construct a careful case for the Creator, skeptics and seekers find it difficult to deny the powerful evidence from biochemistry and other areas of science for God's existence.



      Source

      © Copyright Original Source



      From Reasons to Believe:

      Source: Crossed off the List: Is the Cross Shape of Laminin Evidence for the Creator?


      As I travel around the country to speak on the biochemical evidence for an Intelligent Designer, the biblical Creator, I am frequently asked to comment on laminin. The people who mention this protein are usually quite excited, convinced that its structure provides powerful scientific evidence for the Christian faith. Unfortunately, I don’t agree.

      What motivates this unusual question is a molecular biologist’s popularized claim that laminin’s structure provides physical evidence that the God of the Bible created human beings and also sustains our lives. While I wholeheartedly believe God did create and does sustain human life, laminin’s apparent cross-shape does not make the case.

      Laminin is one of the key components of the basal lamina, a thin sheet-like structure that surrounds cells in animal tissue. The basal lamina is part of the extracellular matrix (ECM). This structure consists of a meshwork of fibrous proteins and polysaccharides secreted by the cells. It forms the space between cells in animal tissue. The ECM carries out a wide range of functions that include providing anchor points and support for cells.

      Laminin is a relatively large protein consisting of three different protein subunits that combine to form a t-shaped structure when the flexible rod-like regions of laminin are fully extended. Each of the four “arms” of laminin contains sites that allow this biomolecule to bind to other laminin molecules, other proteins (like collagen), and large polysaccharides. Laminin also provides a binding site for proteins called integrins, which are located in the cell membrane.

      Laminin’s architecture and binding sites make this protein ideally suited to interact with other proteins and polysaccharides to form a network called the basal reticulum and to anchor cells to this biochemical scaffolding. The basal reticulum helps hold cells together to form tissues and, in turn, helps cement that tissue to connective tissues.

      The cross-like shape of laminin and the role it plays in holding tissues together has prompted the claim that this biomolecule provides scientific support for passages such as Colossians 1:15-17 and shows how the God of the Bible must have made humans and continues to sustain them.

      I would caution Christians against using this “argument.” I see a number of problems with it. (And so do many skeptics.) First, the cross shape is a simple structure found throughout nature. So it’s probably not a good idea to attach too much significance to laminin’s shape. The t configuration makes laminin ideally suited to connect proteins to each other and cells to the basal reticulum. This is undoubtedly the reason for its structure.

      Secondly, the cross shape of laminin is an idealized illustration of the molecule. Portraying complex biomolecules in simplified ways is a common practice among biochemists. Depicting laminin in this extended form helps these scientists visualize and catalogue the binding sites along its four arms. This configuration should not be interpreted to represent its actual shape in biological systems. In the basal reticulum laminin adopts all sorts of shapes that bear no resemblance to a cross. In fact, it’s much more commonplace to observe laminin in a swastika configuration than in a cross-like one. Even electron micrographs of isolated laminin molecules that appear cross-shaped may be misleading. Their shape is likely an artifact of sample preparation. I have seen other electron micrographs that show laminin adopting a variety of twisted shapes that, again, bear no resemblance to a cross.

      Finally, laminin is not the only molecule “holding things together.” A number of other proteins and polysaccharides are also indispensable components of the basal reticulum. None of these molecules is cross-shaped.

      As I argue in my book, The Cell’s Design, the structure and operation of biochemical systems provide some of the most potent support for a Creator’s role in fabricating living systems. Instead of pointing to superficial features of biomolecules such as the “cross-shaped” architecture of laminin, there are many more substantive ways to use biochemistry to argue for the necessity of a Creator and for the value He places on human life. As a case in point, the salient characteristics of biochemical systems identically match those features we would recognize immediately as evidence for the work of a human design engineer. The close similarity between biochemical systems and the devices produced by human designers logically compels this conclusion: life’s most fundamental processes and structures stem from the work of an Intelligent, Intentional Agent. (Click here for an example.)

      When Christians invest the effort to construct a careful case for the Creator, skeptics and seekers find it difficult to deny the powerful evidence from biochemistry and other areas of science for God’s existence.



      Source

      © Copyright Original Source


      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        Also, I'll be quick to point out that the video indicates that laminin is "in the perfect shape of a cross". That's not exactly correct -- the scientific schematic, or representation, of laminin appears very much like a cross. The actual molecule is much less defined.

        [ATTACH=CONFIG]40260[/ATTACH] As opposed to [ATTACH=CONFIG]40261[/ATTACH]
        Or

        Laminin.jpg

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Also, I'll be quick to point out that the video indicates that laminin is "in the perfect shape of a cross". That's not exactly correct -- the scientific schematic, or representation, of laminin appears very much like a cross. The actual molecule is much less defined.

          [ATTACH=CONFIG]40260[/ATTACH] As opposed to [ATTACH=CONFIG]40261[/ATTACH]
          Looks much like a caduceus.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            Since every party requires the prerequisite pooper:
            Which is exactly why I included the comments...

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Please note, I do NOT recommend using this as "proof" of Creation - for that, we rely on the truth of the Word of God.
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Also, I'll be quick to point out that the video indicates that laminin is "in the perfect shape of a cross". That's not exactly correct -- the scientific schematic, or representation, of laminin appears very much like a cross. The actual molecule is much less defined.
            And....

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            I just found it very interesting.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Which is exactly why I included the comments...




              And....
              Was all that for me?

              I realized you weren't making any claims.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Was all that for me?

                I realized you weren't making any claims.
                Just in general --- just making sure nobody thinks that I am presenting this as anything other than "interesting".

                You're still my favoritist Tweb poster* in all the world!





                *subject to change without notice, and depending on to whom it is that I'm posting, offer not good in Alaska, Hawaii, Puerto Rico or downtown Parma, Ohio, no animals have been harmed in the posting of this post, and any similarity to any person living, dead or otherwise is purely coincidental, blah blah blah yada yada yada...
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Faber View Post
                  Looks much like a caduceus.
                  I thought the same thing.
                  Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by QuantaFille View Post
                    I thought the same thing.
                    That's actually a point that the Snopes response makes.

                    But, if you think about it, the caduceus looks very much like a representation of the "lifting serpents in the desert" for the Children of Israel to protect themselves from death by snakes.
                    Last edited by Cow Poke; 10-16-2019, 03:08 PM.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I went over this topic years ago when I was teaching John's Gospel at John 3:14.

                      The symbol for medicine and healing is actually the Rod of Asclepius, which is a stick with a single snake (some say a parasitic worm) wrapped around it and facing outward. It appears regularly on ambulances and rescue vehicles. It predates Moses and most likely was recognized as a symbol of healing by the Children of Israel in the wilderness when Moses lifted it up. It was mentioned in an ancient Egyptian papyrus around 1500 BC.

                      The symbol which doctors and hospitals mistakenly use is the Caduceus, a pole with two snakes wrapped around it, heads facing the pole, and wings at the top of the pole. It was associated with the Greek god Hermes and symbolizes commerce.

                      Then again, maybe the doctors and hospitals know what they're doing.
                      rod of asclepius.jpg

                      Comment

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