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orthodox Christians only.

Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?

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Justified By Faith Alone

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  • #16
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    ...or we could take the sum of the whole, and work out a position which satisfies everything. I like that approach better.
    ISTM the best approach is to start with the idea that most likely, no passage really means what it seems to mean.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
      Put it this way, if there aren't any works, there is good reason to think there is no salvation (with obvious exceptions like the thief on the cross).

      But the works aren't what save you.
      Good, so works don't save. The problem is trying to judge another man's faith by his works. Every man has a different starting point, different demons to overcome. A different upbringing to bring to the task.
      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

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      • #18
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd
        ISTM the best approach is to start with the idea that most likely, no passage really means what it seems to mean.
        Once you admit that there is temporal salvation as well as eternal salvation, and that temporal salvation usually requires works, it's pretty easy to see what every single passage means.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          Once you admit that there is temporal salvation as well as eternal salvation, and that temporal salvation usually requires works, it's pretty easy to see what every single passage means.
          What do you mean by "temporal salvation", and what verses clearly make the distinction?
          Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

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          • #20
            Salvation means protection from something. Temporal salvation means protection from something other than eternal death in hell. Here is an example of temporal salvation:

            James 5:14-15

            14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
              Salvation means protection from something. Temporal salvation means protection from something other than eternal death in hell. Here is an example of temporal salvation:

              James 5:14-15

              14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15 and the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
              What if someone doesn't receive temporal salvation, even with good works? What would that indicate?
              Curiosity never hurt anyone. It was stupidity that killed the cat.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by seer View Post
                Good, so works don't save. The problem is trying to judge another man's faith by his works. Every man has a different starting point, different demons to overcome. A different upbringing to bring to the task.
                And, again, this is where Grace comes in? Why would I want to "judge another man's faith by his works?" The only legitimate reason for me is in determining if would benefit from a presentation of the Gospel in regards to Salvation, or for encouragement in his Christian walk.

                In either case, it's not simply a matter of standing back and observing, but stepping forward and interacting.

                But, yes - what you said.
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by seer View Post
                  Good, so works don't save. The problem is trying to judge another man's faith by his works. Every man has a different starting point, different demons to overcome. A different upbringing to bring to the task.
                  I heard a sermon not that long ago where the pastor argued that God works with people incrementally and doesn't seek to change everything at once. That there is room to grow. I think that fits with that.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    I heard a sermon not that long ago where the pastor argued that God works with people incrementally and doesn't seek to change everything at once. That there is room to grow. I think that fits with that.
                    Years ago, I heard Paul Little say something interesting. Instead of asking (or discussing) "are you saved or lost", he would ask something like "have you come to a saving faith in Christ, or are you still on the way?".

                    I like that, because it doesn't slam a door shut in the face of a lost person - and I've heard MANY people respond, "yeah, I guess that's me... I'm still on the way..."
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      I heard a sermon not that long ago where the pastor argued that God works with people incrementally and doesn't seek to change everything at once. That there is room to grow. I think that fits with that.
                      Or as CS Lewis said, it is not what the man is with Christ, but what he would have been without Christ...
                      Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Years ago, I heard Paul Little say something interesting. Instead of asking (or discussing) "are you saved or lost", he would ask something like "have you come to a saving faith in Christ, or are you still on the way?".

                        I like that, because it doesn't slam a door shut in the face of a lost person - and I've heard MANY people respond, "yeah, I guess that's me... I'm still on the way..."
                        Everyone on this mortal coil is still on the way. Some of us can point to a time where we began our journey to salvation; the rest haven't yet gotten to that point.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                        • #27
                          I have to convert every now and then. I've been too preoccupied with my career lately, I really need to rededicate myself more to Christ. And if I was perfect I imagine I'd convert every single morning.

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