Originally posted by KingsGambit
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orthodox Christians only.
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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Definition of Evangelical
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI might be off base here, but I sort of see a dividing line in whether the church emphasizes the need for a personal decision to follow Christ or not. I don't see that in the more liberal churches at all, whereas the UMC Church here in town I mentioned gives all visitors a welcome packet that includes a basic gospel presentation (and the pastor will emphasize the gospel in his sermons, even going off topic in doing so).
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostSo, is the content of the message not as relevant as the act of sharing the message?
This question is intended to 'examine' whether groups would reasonably call themselves 'evangelical' if the message isn't consistent with the Apostle's Creed.
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I might be off base here, but I sort of see a dividing line in whether the church emphasizes the need for a personal decision to follow Christ or not. I don't see that in the more liberal churches at all, whereas the UMC Church here in town I mentioned gives all visitors a welcome packet that includes a basic gospel presentation (and the pastor will emphasize the gospel in his sermons, even going off topic in doing so).
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBut the root in "Evangelical" would be "to evangelize". It's not so much about what you believe, but what you do.
This question is intended to 'examine' whether groups would reasonably call themselves 'evangelical' if the message isn't consistent with the Apostle's Creed.
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI realize that the Apostle's Creed is quite minimal in it's scope. Especially noticeable, this creed doesn't confess anything explicitly about scriptures. I used this as a simple, but minimal, statement of beliefs that I thought would apply as a statement to discern from people who like scriptures as fallible myths. However, you can't be consistent to say scripture is all fallible mythology while also adhering the Apostle's Creed.
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My last church before moving (and the one I'm attending now) recite the Apostle's Creed now. I'm sort of in the no-man's land between mainline and evangelical, as both churches are UMC churches that are very much evangelical (many such churches, especially in the South, do not reflect the leftward motion on a denominational level).
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I realize that the Apostle's Creed is quite minimal in it's scope. Especially noticeable, this creed doesn't confess anything explicitly about scriptures. I used this as a simple, but minimal, statement of beliefs that I thought would apply as a statement to discern from people who like scriptures as fallible myths. However, you can't be consistent to say scripture is all fallible mythology while also adhering the Apostle's Creed.
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostI've always thought it had to do with the emphasis of "evangelizing" to spread the gospel... not whether it was credal or not...
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Here's the Apostle's Creed copied from CCEL
https://www.ccel.org/creeds/apostles.creed.html
1. I believe in God the Father, Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth:
2. And in Jesus Christ, his only begotten Son, our Lord:
3. Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary:
4. Suffered under Pontius Pilate; was crucified, dead and buried: He descended into hell:
5. The third day he rose again from the dead:
6. He ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty:
7. From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead:
8. I believe in the Holy Ghost:
9. I believe in the holy catholic church: the communion of saints:
10. The forgiveness of sins:
1l. The resurrection of the body:
12. And the life everlasting. Amen.
It doesn't seem to be a 'big' problem if Christians aren't all aware of the ideas in this creed. The problem is if a person opposes the truths found in this creed.
There also is problem when ministers confess the Apostle Creed publicly but disagree with it in private.
After studying the creeds and confessions, I decided it would be good to teach these in the local churches and to confess these among the members. But it could be interesting introducing congregational confession in a church group that hasn't been publicly confessing these.
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I've always thought it had to do with the emphasis of "evangelizing" to spread the gospel... not whether it was credal or not...
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostWould most evangelicals hold to the definition that 'evangelicalism' has its foundational meaning as "people who hold to, at minimal, some of the ancient Christian confessions?"
(I am fine including 'mainstream' Christian groups who also adhere to some of the ancient Christian confessions. I was sort of focused on the term 'evangelical' here. )
I might moderate the definition by noting that such evangelicals may be consciously aware of the connection of their faith with the confessions. (If someone has an improved definition of evangelical, that would be helpful.)
If I end up having to define those who are Christians, I would tend to speak of confessional Christianity -- those holding to, at minimal, the Apostles' Creed.
I suppose we could also ask what makes Christians also evangelical.
emphasizing salvation by faith in the atoning death of Jesus Christ through personal conversion, the authority of Scripture, and the importance of preaching as contrasted with ritual
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostWould most evangelicals hold to the definition that 'evangelicalism' has its foundational meaning as "people who hold to, at minimal, some of the ancient Christian confessions?"
(I am fine including 'mainstream' Christian groups who also adhere to some of the ancient Christian confessions. I was sort of focused on the term 'evangelical' here. )
I might moderate the definition by noting that such evangelicals may be consciously aware of the connection of their faith with the confessions. (If someone has an improved definition of evangelical, that would be helpful.)
If I end up having to define those who are Christians, I would tend to speak of confessional Christianity -- those holding to, at minimal, the Apostles' Creed.
I suppose we could also ask what makes Christians also evangelical.
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