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Andrew Wommack & Resurrections

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  • Andrew Wommack & Resurrections

    Ok, so I know Wommack is a Hyper-Faith (and maybe Hyper-Grace) kinda guy. Not concerned about those issues at this time.

    I'm interested in his claims of resurrections in and around his ministry, especially the claimed resurrection of his son after five hours. I have so far not found anything about them other than his (or his ministry's) own claims -- nothing either confirming or disproving.

    Does anyone have info on this?

    FTR, I do not rule out such things automatically, especially since such a respected scholar as Craig Keener affirms resurrections in his own family.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Nationalist.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

  • #2
    This is one issue where I feel a disconnect between what we're "supposed" to do and what we actually do. I get the impression from the New Testament and the early church that we shouldn't be so skeptical - 1 Thessalonians 5:20 says not to scoff at prophecies, and the Didache even suggests that questioning a prophet is the unforgivable sin. Yet in practical terms, it seems difficult to ignore that most people who claim miracles or prophetic utterances tend to be heterodox (especially with prosperity doctrine) or likely mentally ill (there was one guy who came onto the TWeb shoutbox speaking weird, nearly incoherent English claiming that God had transported him twenty miles at once. I honestly didn't believe him).

    I honestly believe Keener, though. Craig Blomberg reported a story about an elderly woman in his church who was audibly told to grab a cell phone shortly before falling on ice, and I don't see a reason not to believe him, either. Wommack? The jury is out.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      I don't think resurrections still happen today. I believe God can heal people miraculously, but I don't think he brings them back from the dead any more. I think that was a special thing that happened during the time of Jesus to show he was the Messiah. And once for Paul with the kid who fell out of the window and that one could even be a case of mistaken death.

      Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I don't think resurrections still happen today. I believe God can heal people miraculously, but I don't think he brings them back from the dead any more. I think that was a special thing that happened during the time of Jesus to show he was the Messiah. And once for Paul with the kid who fell out of the window and that one could even be a case of mistaken death.
        Why the exception for Paul? And what about the resurrection of Tabitha (Dorcas) by Peter?

        And what of Jesus' words in John 14:12, “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."

        Also, we have Irenaeus mentioning the raising of the dead in the 2nd century,

        Source: Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 31)

        For they {heretics/Gnostics} can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons— [none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infirmity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity — the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints— that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.

        © Copyright Original Source



        (Red note and underline mine)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
          Why the exception for Paul? And what about the resurrection of Tabitha (Dorcas) by Peter?

          And what of Jesus' words in John 14:12, “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father."

          Also, we have Irenaeus mentioning the raising of the dead in the 2nd century,

          Source: Against Heresies (Book II, Chapter 31)

          For they {heretics/Gnostics} can neither confer sight on the blind, nor hearing on the deaf, nor chase away all sorts of demons— [none, indeed,] except those that are sent into others by themselves, if they can even do so much as this. Nor can they cure the weak, or the lame, or the paralytic, or those who are distressed in any other part of the body, as has often been done in regard to bodily infirmity. Nor can they furnish effective remedies for those external accidents which may occur. And so far are they from being able to raise the dead, as the Lord raised them, and the apostles did by means of prayer, and as has been frequently done in the brotherhood on account of some necessity — the entire Church in that particular locality entreating [the boon] with much fasting and prayer, the spirit of the dead man has returned, and he has been bestowed in answer to the prayers of the saints— that they do not even believe this can be possibly be done, [and hold] that the resurrection from the dead is simply an acquaintance with that truth which they proclaim.

          © Copyright Original Source



          (Red note and underline mine)
          I forgot about Tabitha.

          My belief is that there was a special time for such miracles back when they were needed to help get the Church started.

          Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

          Comment


          • #6
            For those interested, on this page Keener briefly shares a couple of resurrection anecdotes, including his sister-in-law. (He was not involved in "performing" -- for lack of a better word -- the raisings.)
            Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

            Beige Nationalist.

            "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

            Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              This is one issue where I feel a disconnect between what we're "supposed" to do and what we actually do. I get the impression from the New Testament and the early church that we shouldn't be so skeptical - 1 Thessalonians 5:20 says not to scoff at prophecies, and the Didache even suggests that questioning a prophet is the unforgivable sin. Yet in practical terms, it seems difficult to ignore that most people who claim miracles or prophetic utterances tend to be heterodox (especially with prosperity doctrine) or likely mentally ill (there was one guy who came onto the TWeb shoutbox speaking weird, nearly incoherent English claiming that God had transported him twenty miles at once. I honestly didn't believe him).

              I honestly believe Keener, though. Craig Blomberg reported a story about an elderly woman in his church who was audibly told to grab a cell phone shortly before falling on ice, and I don't see a reason not to believe him, either. Wommack? The jury is out.
              I share a lot of your misgivings.

              Regarding 1 Thes. 5:20 -- WADR to the Didache, I believe the next verse (5:21) directly instructs that we *should* "test" prophecies, which is in practical terms equivalent to "questioning" prophets. 1 Cor. 14:29 STM to indicate the same thing, as does the fact that "distinguishing" or "discerning" of spirits (a form of the same verb used in 14:29) appears next to "prophecy" in 12:10. It always annoyed me when "Faith" preachers would try to pull the "Touch not the LORD's anointed, and do His prophets no harm" and "Believe in His prophets and you will prosper" cards.

              As for what we're "supposed" to do vs. what we "actually" do -- I often think of Acts 12. Peter is in jail. The church was "earnestly" praying for him. An angel of the Lord released Peter in the night. Peter went to a home where many were gathered in prayer, and knocked on the door. Rhoda the servant girl answered the knock, was so overjoyed that she LEFT HIM THERE AND DID NOT OPEN THE DOOR, and went to tell the others. They basically said, "Yeah, and what are YOU smoking?" When they finally went to the door and saw she was right, they were astonished. They were praying, but apparently had no expectation that God would actually do something, at least not anything dramatic.

              I know I'm usually like that today. And I'm pretty sure if God *did* do something dramatic, like raise a dead person, it would scare me as much as please me.
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Nationalist.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think we simply live in a post-modern scientistic society that makes it hard for us to accept the miraculous, and so, like Jesus in his hometown, where there is a lack of faith we simply don't see it as often as we should. That's not to say that in cultures that are more accepting of the miraculous it isn't still astonishing to see/hear it take place. After all, it's still contrary to the norm, and it is still a display of power from on high, but I think certain Southern hemisphere societies can expect to see more of the miraculous because the simplicity of their faith and their standard of living is often at a place where they have nothing to lose by accepting that divine manifestations can happen in their community.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  I think we simply live in a post-modern scientistic society that makes it hard for us to accept the miraculous, and so, like Jesus in his hometown, where there is a lack of faith we simply don't see it as often as we should. That's not to say that in cultures that are more accepting of the miraculous it isn't still astonishing to see/hear it take place. After all, it's still contrary to the norm, and it is still a display of power from on high, but I think certain Southern hemisphere societies can expect to see more of the miraculous because the simplicity of their faith and their standard of living is often at a place where they have nothing to lose by accepting that divine manifestations can happen in their community.
                  All claims of the miraculous should be handled on a case by case basis. There's no general rule of thumb we can apply against or for them, other than perhaps, at most, a common sense suggestion that the more extraordinary ones are very rare. There's plenty of reason to be at least a little skeptical, but there is also, in my mind, no reason to be outright dismissive.

                  In general when people claim they've seen an angel I believe them. Though, of course, once they start talking about what that angel said and it touches doctrinal stuff, I'll prefer the opinion of the Bible.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    All claims of the miraculous should be handled on a case by case basis. There's no general rule of thumb we can apply against or for them, other than perhaps, at most, a common sense suggestion that the more extraordinary ones are very rare. There's plenty of reason to be at least a little skeptical, but there is also, in my mind, no reason to be outright dismissive.
                    You'll find no disagreement from me on this.

                    Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                    In general when people claim they've seen an angel I believe them. Though, of course, once they start talking about what that angel said and it touches doctrinal stuff, I'll prefer the opinion of the Bible.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      I share a lot of your misgivings.

                      Regarding 1 Thes. 5:20 -- WADR to the Didache, I believe the next verse (5:21) directly instructs that we *should* "test" prophecies, which is in practical terms equivalent to "questioning" prophets. 1 Cor. 14:29 STM to indicate the same thing, as does the fact that "distinguishing" or "discerning" of spirits (a form of the same verb used in 14:29) appears next to "prophecy" in 12:10. It always annoyed me when "Faith" preachers would try to pull the "Touch not the LORD's anointed, and do His prophets no harm" and "Believe in His prophets and you will prosper" cards.
                      The Didache does not give a particularly coherent view on how to treat prophecies (or, to hear Roger Olson say it, it just outright contradicts itself on that point). I see that as evidence that even in the 1st/2nd century, believers were struggling with some of these same questions we are now. It seems that one of the major occasional problems there was itinerant prophets who were taking advantage of the generosity of churches. It's not too hard to draw certain parallels to today from that.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I guess my main concern is whether Wommack uses those resurrection anecdotes as support for his doctrines.
                        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                        Beige Nationalist.

                        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                          I guess my main concern is whether Wommack uses those resurrection anecdotes as support for his doctrines.
                          If the anecdotes are accurate, I don't know if it would be fair to expect him to exclude them from consideration, though obviously it's also not necessarily reasonable to expect the rest of us to automatically believe him.

                          He's not a terrible exegete. His website contains a fair amount of New Testament verse-by-verse commentary.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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