Universalists are very good at philosophy, mainly because they are very bad at scripture interpretation. There are some verses and concepts you can take out of context to make an argument for universalism, but Jesus made perfectly clear that some will not be saved. Also note Hebrews 3:11: "They will never enter my rest."
I don't think there's anything wrong with hoping everybody will be saved, because 2 Peter 3:9 says the same thing. But when you outright say that it will happen, it becomes a problem.
(This is a very hot topic right now in theology because David Bentley Hart's much anticipated book arguing for universalism is coming out this fall... so I expect to be hearing more discussion about universalism online.)
Edit: Literally two minutes after I posted, I saw that a friend of mine just posted on FB that he is going to publish a critical review of Hart's book in a theological journal. Talk about coincidences.
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This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining “Christian” or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
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Universalism
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What about people who don't want to be saved? One person's utopia is another person's dystopia....
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostUnited Methodist.
However, perhaps this particular church needs people like me to challenge what they preach!?
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostUnited Methodist.
However, perhaps this particular church needs people like me to challenge what they preach!?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostOur Methodist "guest pastor" sermon on the radio this past Sunday morning was the parable of the Good Samaritan, and how that was a lesson for us to be kinder and more accepting of the "LBGTQ-plus community". And that's how the guest pastor pronounced it numerous times - kinda slowing down and very clearly enunciating "L B G T Q Plus community". He explained that his 'sexual orientation' gave him greater insight into the scriptures than his colleagues.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postmaybe its time to find a new church. What denomination is it?
However, perhaps this particular church needs people like me to challenge what they preach!?
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhile speaking at Grace Cathedral—an Episcopal church in San Francisco—he was directly asked about his stance on gay marriage and he offered the following response:
“I am for marriage. I am for fidelity. I am for love, whether it’s a man and woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man. I think the ship has sailed and I think the church needs — I think this is the world we are living in and we need to affirm people wherever they are.”
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostTell me more. My church wanted to be able to marry homosexuals.
“I am for marriage. I am for fidelity. I am for love, whether it’s a man and woman, a woman and a woman, a man and a man. I think the ship has sailed and I think the church needs — I think this is the world we are living in and we need to affirm people wherever they are.”
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Originally posted by Christian3 View PostTell me more. My church wanted to be able to marry homosexuals.
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostI wouldn't trust anything Rob Bell writes.
And if someone were teaching something that he wrote I would be gone.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostNo. Rob Bell wrote that book to excuse practicing homosexuals of their sin.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostSome part of me wishes that universalism was true. My heard knows it is not.
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