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Universalism

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  • #61
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Well, his desire is to show mercy, which means we must first need mercy.


    Yes, some are vessels of wrath, prepared for destruction. Yet is there hope for them?

    "Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved." (Rom. 10:1)

    Paul is praying for those whom he said God had rejected!

    Blessings,
    Lee
    If God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      If God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?
      At this point, I'm not sure what brother Lee is actually saying.
      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
        At this point, I'm not sure what brother Lee is actually saying.
        Well since this is in Christianity 101, and universalism is unorthodox, nobody should be promoting universalism in this thread to begin with. We can discuss what is wrong with it, but if someone wants to argue why it is true, they need to start another thread.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          Well since this is in Christianity 101, and universalism is unorthodox, nobody should be promoting universalism in this thread to begin with. We can discuss what is wrong with it, but if someone wants to argue why it is true, they need to start another thread.
          Lee is a hopeful universalist which is different from dogmatic universalism. They're both wrong but significantly different.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Universalism is a lazy man's excuse to ignore the Great Commission.
            I think you are right on this your comment. Why preach the gospel if God will accept you without it?

            AND, doesn't universalism do harm to Jesus' sacrifice? If everyone is saved then why did Jesus have to die?

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              If you feel called to do that and think it could work, go for it. But be prepared to just move on if they don't listen.
              The problem with leaving is perhaps I will find heresy in the next church and then the next.

              I had a Bible study yesterday and was amazed how many said they believe everyone will be saved aside from Jesus. It seems that they believe that Jesus is only one way to God, others get there by following the law or saying 5 prayers per day or even believing there is a higher Being.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                The problem with leaving is perhaps I will find heresy in the next church and then the next.....
                Think about that a minute --- you're going to stay under false teachers because there MAY BE a chance that you'll encounter that again?
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                  The problem with leaving is perhaps I will find heresy in the next church and then the next.

                  I had a Bible study yesterday and was amazed how many said they believe everyone will be saved aside from Jesus. It seems that they believe that Jesus is only one way to God, others get there by following the law or saying 5 prayers per day or even believing there is a higher Being.
                  Find yourself a good church, no matter how long it takes. You might want to consider moving to a different denomination since the methodist leaders have pretty much accepted homosexuality as being acceptable. Maybe a good Southern Baptist church like Cow Poke leads? He could probably help you find one in your area if you PM him.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Find yourself a good church, no matter how long it takes. You might want to consider moving to a different denomination since the methodist leaders have pretty much accepted homosexuality as being acceptable. Maybe a good Southern Baptist church like Cow Poke leads? He could probably help you find one in your area if you PM him.
                    I always thought I was a closet Baptist. There is one about 20 minutes away. I'm going to listen to some of their pastor's sermons. Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                      I always thought I was a closet Baptist. There is one about 20 minutes away. I'm going to listen to some of their pastor's sermons. Thanks.
                      Or a good Bible Church - I know a number of Bible Church pastors around me, and they're great guys - the theology is pretty consistent with Baptist, or vice versa - more about "What does the Bible say" than "Here's what I think, and here are a couple verses to back it up".
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Or a good Bible Church - I know a number of Bible Church pastors around me, and they're great guys - the theology is pretty consistent with Baptist, or vice versa - more about "What does the Bible say" than "Here's what I think, and here are a couple verses to back it up".
                        Yep. although there are some independent baptist churches that you can't be sure of what they are teaching unless you check them out. My mom's baptist church is OK, but it is KJV Only and the preacher is the type that starts breathing funny and gets red faced as he "gets the holy spirit" going. I usually couldn't follow him at all when the started his strutting chicken walk with his gospel yelling.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          Yep. although there are some independent baptist churches that you can't be sure of what they are teaching unless you check them out. My mom's baptist church is OK, but it is KJV Only and the preacher is the type that starts breathing funny and gets red faced as he "gets the holy spirit" going. I usually couldn't follow him at all when the started his strutting chicken walk with his gospel yelling.
                          Yeah, that just looks forced.
                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            And, yet, people die not having repented.
                            So there would need to be hope for repentance after death.

                            For example, "What about those who have never heard the gospel?" Even J.I. Packer has indicated that they may have a chance to hear and believe, after dying.

                            Originally posted by lee_merrill
                            No, people have to repent and put their faith in Jesus, his sacrifice is the atonement for sin.
                            Yes, and that negates universal salvation.
                            Well, not if everyone may repent.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              So there would need to be hope for repentance after death.
                              Lee, you're sounding like Joseph Smith who, when his brother died without being baptized, decided there needed to be baptism by proxy.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                                Originally posted by lee_merrill
                                Yes, some are vessels of wrath, prepared for destruction. Yet is there hope for them?

                                "Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved." (Rom. 10:1)

                                Paul is praying for those whom he said God had rejected!
                                If God creates something for the purpose of him destroying it, then doesn't destroy it, then he is not omnipotent. How would that be any different than you claiming that God isn't omnipotent if he desires all to be saved but doesn't save all?
                                Well, destruction doesn't mean utter destruction, does it? Otherwise, we would be annihilationists. So then there might be hope for people who are prepared for destruction, after that destruction--Paul is praying for them.

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                                Comment

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