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Christians and Trump--two perspectives

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  • Christians and Trump--two perspectives

    I briefly thought about posting this in Civics, but...nah.

    These are from a site called Sharper Iron that I lurk at on occasion. From their "About" section:

    Source: Sharper Iron About

    Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for your interest in SharperIron. SI is a site hosted by people of historic fundamentalist conviction (See “Fundamentalist?!” It may not be what you think).

    Our aim is to provide a place where Christians can interact thoughtfully and respectfully on a wide range of topics, including our articles and the news items and blog samples we post daily.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Two of the site regulars posted these articles. I share them for your reading pleasure and--hopefully--edification.

    Source: SI, first article


    Donald Trump has a long history of sexual immorality. A serial husband with several divorces, he has a reputation for womanizing. His integrity as a businessman is questionable, given his habit of ignoring debts and using bankruptcy as a business strategy. His speech is provocative and he is careless with the truth. Combine this with an over-sized ego and Trump is not the kind of person Christians respect. It’s no wonder some think Christians are hypocrites to support Trump. In many ways, Donald Trump is as un-Christian as it’s possible to be.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Source

    Source: SI, second article


    I agree with much of what [the author] had to say on the topic yesterday, particularly the negative assessments of President Trump’s character and behavior. I agree also that some of the President’s policies have been helpful to the nation and sensible in the eyes of conservatives. I concede, too, that in an election, deciding what candidate to support can be difficult—especially if we only consider those who have a chance of winning. If we accept that constriction, we’re stuck with what the parties decide to offer us.

    Those are the primary points of agreement. Philosophically, I’m sure we agree on much as well. Most of the controversy among conservative Christians has to do with how to apply principles we share. Still, these principles are often not articulated in the more Trump-friendly perspectives I hear from fellow-Christians. I believe that if these truths are more front-of-mind, they’ll have more influence on how we evaluate presidents and make electoral choices.

    © Copyright Original Source

    Source
    I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

  • #2
    Donald Trump was a rich heathen most of his life....and may very well still be. But, he claims to have converted, Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son says he accepted Christ so, how should we evaluate those claims? As a baby Christian, new to the faith, most of my activities would have gotten me shamed or condemned most likely. Even today, I occasionally consume alcohol...for many Christians, this is a big no no and calls my faith into question. But, the thing I've learned is that whether you're saved by the blood of Christ has never been, and will never be about your behavior, it's always been about faith. Does Trump have faith? I don't know, but his detractors can't know for sure either. Trump doesn't have the luxury of learning what it's like to be Christian in a church, with a Bible believing support group. I think it's unfair at this point to say one way or the other. Meanwhile, he's trying to make good on his campaign promises, (whether you agree with them or not, it's still unusual) and the US economy is humming along nicely.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the way he has made serious attempts to keep his promises speaks well of him. What he did in the past is either between him and God or as far from him as the east is from the west - and I am not privy to know which. He's been a much better president than I'd thought he could be.

      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

      My Personal Blog

      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
        Donald Trump was a rich heathen most of his life....and may very well still be. But, he claims to have converted, Franklin Graham, Billy Graham's son says he accepted Christ ...
        Has Trump himself actually claimed to have converted? I've heard others -- Franklin Graham, as you note, and a few more -- make that claim on his behalf, but I've not seen or heard him directly make the claim.
        Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

        Beige Nationalist.

        "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

        Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          Has Trump himself actually claimed to have converted? I've heard others -- Franklin Graham, as you note, and a few more -- make that claim on his behalf, but I've not seen or heard him directly make the claim.
          Interesting question, actually...I don't think I've seen him make the claim, either. (Not that I've looked)
          I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

          Comment


          • #6
            He is probably a young Christian. I actually think that if that's so, it's best for him to not make public proclamations of faith.

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
              Has Trump himself actually claimed to have converted? I've heard others -- Franklin Graham, as you note, and a few more -- make that claim on his behalf, but I've not seen or heard him directly make the claim.
              Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
              Interesting question, actually...I don't think I've seen him make the claim, either. (Not that I've looked)
              Well, I don't know if he used the term converted exactly but

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36qhTfCWdiw

              At the 6:08 Trump says: "....I'm a very good Christian..." and says, it again at 6:20

              I admit I was going off of reports like the one from Franklin Graham and James Dobson. This article from Belief net claims to quote Donald Trump in his book Great Again:
              “I think people are shocked when they find out that I am Christian, that I am a religious person,” Trump wrote in “Great Again,” a book published during the presidential campaign. “They see me with all the surroundings of wealth, so they sometimes don’t associate that with being religious. That’s not accurate.”

              https://www.beliefnet.com/news/polit...Ov83UjsK1hW.99
              "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

              "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

              Comment


              • #8
                The first source failed to give an alternative to voting for Trump. The other option was not to vote until an ideal Christian becomes a candidate -- or a viable candidate

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                  Has Trump himself actually claimed to have converted? I've heard others -- Franklin Graham, as you note, and a few more -- make that claim on his behalf, but I've not seen or heard him directly make the claim.
                  This kinda reminds me of the whole "Did Buttigieg actually, himself, claim to be a practicing Christian"?
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    This kinda reminds me of the whole "Did Buttigieg actually, himself, claim to be a practicing Christian"?
                    A bit. I only participated lightly in that thread. My main issue in that thread was Buttgiggy criticizing the Christianity of others, such as Pence. He has certainly been *regarded* as a "Christian," at least in the sense of someone who attends church and is comfortable with "Christianese." Whatever else is true about Trump, I think it is clear he is not conversant with "Christianese."
                    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                    Beige Nationalist.

                    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      A bit. I only participated lightly in that thread. My main issue in that thread was Buttgiggy criticizing the Christianity of others, such as Pence. He has certainly been *regarded* as a "Christian," at least in the sense of someone who attends church and is comfortable with "Christianese." Whatever else is true about Trump, I think it is clear he is not conversant with "Christianese."
                      Yeah.
                      "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                        I briefly thought about posting this in Civics, but...nah.

                        These are from a site called Sharper Iron that I lurk at on occasion. From their "About" section:

                        Source: Sharper Iron About

                        Thanks for stopping by, and thanks for your interest in SharperIron. SI is a site hosted by people of historic fundamentalist conviction (See “Fundamentalist?!” It may not be what you think).

                        Our aim is to provide a place where Christians can interact thoughtfully and respectfully on a wide range of topics, including our articles and the news items and blog samples we post daily.

                        © Copyright Original Source



                        Two of the site regulars posted these articles. I share them for your reading pleasure and--hopefully--edification.

                        Source: SI, first article


                        Donald Trump has a long history of sexual immorality. A serial husband with several divorces, he has a reputation for womanizing. His integrity as a businessman is questionable, given his habit of ignoring debts and using bankruptcy as a business strategy. His speech is provocative and he is careless with the truth. Combine this with an over-sized ego and Trump is not the kind of person Christians respect. It’s no wonder some think Christians are hypocrites to support Trump. In many ways, Donald Trump is as un-Christian as it’s possible to be.

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        Source

                        Source: SI, second article


                        I agree with much of what [the author] had to say on the topic yesterday, particularly the negative assessments of President Trump’s character and behavior. I agree also that some of the President’s policies have been helpful to the nation and sensible in the eyes of conservatives. I concede, too, that in an election, deciding what candidate to support can be difficult—especially if we only consider those who have a chance of winning. If we accept that constriction, we’re stuck with what the parties decide to offer us.

                        Those are the primary points of agreement. Philosophically, I’m sure we agree on much as well. Most of the controversy among conservative Christians has to do with how to apply principles we share. Still, these principles are often not articulated in the more Trump-friendly perspectives I hear from fellow-Christians. I believe that if these truths are more front-of-mind, they’ll have more influence on how we evaluate presidents and make electoral choices.

                        © Copyright Original Source

                        Source
                        If we were to choose a candidate for President from any Christian congregation, we would find that none of them measures up to what a Christian should be, including the Pastors.

                        The question we should ask ourselves is whether President Trump can be a good President; whether what he does is in the best interests of Americans.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Finally skimmed the articles.

                          The second one was a bunch of inane pie-in-the-sky idealistic fluff.
                          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                          Beige Nationalist.

                          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                            Finally skimmed the articles.

                            The second one was a bunch of inane pie-in-the-sky idealistic fluff.
                            You read the Democratic Party Platform?
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the real question is why anyone cares? Why is it so important to people whether Trump is, or is not, an evangelical protestant?

                              Christian conservatives seem quite invested in selling him as one, and as the second-coming of Reagan. The left-wing seem to think they score a significant point if they point out that he isn't the genuine article but is only playing the ear of the religious right. To Christians, at the end of the day whether Trump is a Christian or not, is between him and God. I think his public statements don't exactly overpower me with a sense that he has the faith. However, there's a matter of record of what sort of political actions he taking. Is he a friend or foe of the religious right. And it appears he wants to be seen as a friend, and therefore the Religious Right in turn will treat him as one.

                              Obama, Clinton and Kennedy all claimed to be right believing Christians, and yet you can't exactly say their policies were all that friendly towards the religious communities.

                              At the end of the day it is those decisions that we are interested in. So if it turned out tomorrow that it was proven beyond any reasonable doubt that Trump was in fact an atheist, then I'd say its the kind of Christian atheist I'd want in office.
                              Last edited by Leonhard; 07-13-2019, 03:50 PM.

                              Comment

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