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Jephthah's vow

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Christianbookworm
    Why is obsidian so sensitive about ANYTHING that could be associated with Roman Catholics?
    Because I have principles.

    Again, is there anything wrong with never getting married and staying a virgin? Whether it's for a vow or for a lack of interest in sex?
    No. That is a red herring that One Bad Pig keeps throwing out to distract from the demonic nature of what he supports. The fact is, if the celibacy is truly going to be "voluntary," then why contaminate it with these so-called vows? The whole point of the vow is to keep it from being voluntary.

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    • #32
      So marriage isn't voluntary dumbass?
      The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

      sigpic

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      • #33
        You said the word for donkey!!!
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Dee Dee Warren
          So marriage isn't voluntary dumbass?
          Of course not. When someone is married, you think that the person's faithfulness is voluntary? It is mandatory. Theoretically that is the whole point of marriage, to enforce faithfulness. It is not optional.

          Likewise, the whole point of these ungodly "vows" is to take away people's freedom to marry or remain celibate.

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          • #35
            Wow, tell that to all those spouses who are innocent victims of adultery. Mandatory: you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
            The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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            • #36
              It would really help if you clarified what your point actually is. You seem to be saying that due to the fact that a monk is free to "sin" by breaking his "vow," this so-called freedom implies that he retains the voluntary option to marry. That is like saying that after I pay my cash to the guy at the gas station, he then has the voluntary choice of whether to turn on the gasoline pump, or to just steal my money. If you want to use the word voluntary that way, I guess you can. But I fail to see the point.

              Also, it would really help if you would stick to the biblical text. The Bible never uses the word "voluntary." It just says that if a man burns then he should marry. It says that some women/widows who don't marry will follow after Satan. No one has yet articulated for me how taking an extrabiblical "vow" aligns with either of those doctrines.

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              • #37
                You don't live in Colorado do you?
                The State. Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by foudroyant View Post
                  Was Jephthah's daughter really sacrificed in that she was killed or does this "sacrifice" refer to something else?



                  Now the Spirit of the Lord came upon Jephthah, so that he passed through Gilead and Manasseh; then he passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from Mizpah of Gilead he went on to the sons of Ammon. Jephthah made a vow to the Lord and said, “If You will indeed give the sons of Ammon into my hand, then it shall be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the sons of Ammon, it shall be the Lord’s, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering.” So Jephthah crossed over to the sons of Ammon to fight against them; and the Lord gave them into his hand. He struck them with a very great slaughter from Aroer to the entrance of Minnith, twenty cities, and as far as Abel-keramim. So the sons of Ammon were subdued before the sons of Israel. When Jephthah came to his house at Mizpah, behold, his daughter was coming out to meet him with tambourines and with dancing. Now she was his one and only child; besides her he had no son or daughter. When he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, “Alas, my daughter! You have brought me very low, and you are among those who trouble me; for I have given my word to the Lord, and I cannot take it back.” So she said to him, “My father, you have given your word to the Lord; do to me as you have said, since the Lord has avenged you of your enemies, the sons of Ammon.” She said to her father, “Let this thing be done for me; let me alone two months, that I may go to the mountains and weep because of my virginity, I and my companions.” Then he said, “Go.” So he sent her away for two months; and she left with her companions, and wept on the mountains because of her virginity. At the end of two months she returned to her father, who did to her according to the vow which he had made; and she had no relations with a man. Thus it became a custom in Israel, that the daughters of Israel went yearly to commemorate the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in the year. (Judges 11:29-40, NASB)
                  Did not Moses himself was asked to literally offer his son, and in compliance, does not it mean that Moses agrees that God can require us to offer human sacrifice?
                  ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                  ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                  https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

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                  • #39
                    Abraham
                    βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                    ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                    אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                      Abraham


                      I thought nobody knew...
                      Last edited by FarEastBird; 04-18-2014, 01:07 PM.
                      ...WISDOM giveth life to them that have it. (Ecclesiastes 7:12)
                      ...the ISLES shall wait for his law (Isaiah 42:4)
                      https://philippinesinprophecies.wordpress.com/

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        A fairly popular view among those who do hold that it was a literal sacrifice seems to be that Jephthah literally sacrificed her but was simply wrong to do so. (I think Paul Copan has alluded to this view, though not necessarily dogmatically). My issue with this is that this seems to be hard to reconcile with Jephthah being held up as an exemplar of faith in Hebrews 11:32.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                        • #42
                          I dunno KG...it also mentions Gideon, David, and Barak who weren't exactly examples of morality...
                          Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

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