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What does Leave & Cleave mean for couples?

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  • What does Leave & Cleave mean for couples?

    When is a mother/son relationship unhealthily close when that son has been married for several years. What are signs?

    Is it daily phone calls or lengthy hour long phone calls every few days which is the case in this instance. She only calls him directly.

    When they talk about extended family issues about people you never even knew existed. Shouldn't I know these people?

    What are signs he is not 'leaving and cleaving' that the wife should be aware of and how does she address it considering she's asked him before to maybe cut the cord a little.

    Also, would it make a difference if they recently became closer because of a sudden illness in their immediate (my extended) family? And even if this is the case, does that mean 'no boundaries', forget he is a father and husband first and call whenever and for however long you want? She left him a message asking him to call her because something happened in the household of the sick person and she wanted him to call his sister to calm her down. Mother left him a message at midnight and he called her when he checked his voice mail at 6:30 in the morning.

    I find that weird. What can he do? He's states away...why does she need to call him so late at night for something he has no control over? THis is not the norm but the extreme version ever since the illness in the family. Before this they still speak to eachother every other day.
    Last edited by princesa; 04-01-2014, 11:34 AM.

  • #2
    In *my* opinion, both as a son, and as a father of a male 16 and 18 year old, it seems there's another question underlying what you are asking, but I could be wrong.

    However, putting that aside, the only thing that you have said that gives me any pause is that you don't know the 'extended family'. After a few years, I would of thought most of anyone that had any real importance in the main family, would be known. At the very least, when they come up, you are then given explanation as to who they are.

    There are some in my own family I have never really discussed with my wife, after 24 years of marriage... they just never came up or had any influence to deserve mentioning. If something happened to them though, it would filter down the grapevine and would come up.

    On the phone calls, that's a difficult thing to answer really. is there something wrong with a mother and son talking every day, or a few hours every few days? What is it you find inappropriate about this? I mean, it may be more than many are used to, but by the same token, I know many females who do exactly the same thing (as well as a few other males). Is it the things they discuss that make you uncomfortable? That the time isn't spent with you?

    That's what I was alluding to at my opening, that there seems to be another underlying issue.. imho, of course.
    JCAtheist


    "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


    --Kiswahili Proverb

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    • #3
      thank you. I edited my last 2 paragraphs if you care to offer insight.

      She was emotionally abusive to me for years before we were married. Today i was upset and yelled at him to cut the chord. He told me to get over the grudge already.

      Yes, i hate that he is her hero in her time of need (any time of day or night apparently and he can be aloof to his nuclear family) but when his mom and dad call he's on the phone with them for about an hour and having a grand old time.

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh.. you added some more while I was quick replying

        Family dynamics can be hard to work out. It does 'sound' as if there is possibly some clinging going on. Still hard to make any real sound discernment without understanding more of the overall processes that make the family 'tick'.
        JCAtheist


        "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


        --Kiswahili Proverb

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by princesa View Post
          thank you. I edited my last 2 paragraphs if you care to offer insight.

          She was emotionally abusive to me for years before we were married. Today i was upset and yelled at him to cut the chord. He told me to get over the grudge already.
          Well these things change perspectives quite a lot. Does your husband agree that she has been emotionally abusive?

          And, do you feel you hold a grudge over what happened?
          JCAtheist


          "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


          --Kiswahili Proverb

          Comment


          • #6
            He knows but that still doesn't change the fact that that is still his mother, would be his explanation and it's the truth. Yes, I hold a grudge. She never apologized and is a neglectful mother in law and grandmother but she showers her son with love and attention, exclusively. My father on the other hands spoils him with love and gifts. I'm the girl here! adds fuel to the fire.

            The worst part, he doesn't mind as long as he's getting attention. If he ever puts his foot down and says, 'mom, you never call my wife or kids, just me, they are my family and if you can't make an effort for them I'm afraid that's insulting to me'.

            I'm a beast for suggesting it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sadly, I don't think you are going to get her to change, although it's not impossible... just highly improbable. As for your husband, it is my opinion that his first concern should be you and your children. If it is something that is obviously bothering you, it needs to be addressed.

              You need to dispose of this grudge too, as it obviously doesn't really help the situation. Not that I don't sympathize with your situation in it all, I just don't see how you holding on to it will be any part of the solution when it comes to fixing it.

              It is just my opinion, but it seems that you and hubby need to sit down and find a way to talk this through without bringing in overheated emotions. I also realise how difficult that can be to do.

              And, you aren't a beast.


              JCAtheist
              JCAtheist


              "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


              --Kiswahili Proverb

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by JCAtheist View Post
                As for your husband, it is my opinion that his first concern should be you and your children. JCAtheist
                So he is showing that he is, in fact, lacking concern based on my post? I think so, I just want to see if others see it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by princesa View Post
                  So he is showing that he is, in fact, lacking concern based on my post? I think so, I just want to see if others see it.
                  Well it appears so, from what you have put. Of course, there are always two sides to a coin... possibly a third if you count the edge. If this whole thing upsets you this much that you two are having heated words about it, then yes, imho it needs sorting out before it days any more damage.
                  JCAtheist


                  "I pointed out to you the stars and all you saw was the tip of my finger."


                  --Kiswahili Proverb

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Princesa, as I recall from your previous posts, this has been an issue for years. You are concerned that your husband puts his mother before his wife. That would be a problem in the best of circumstances, but it's worse when the wife and the mother don't get along, regularly putting him in a position where he can only satisfy one by upsetting the other; thus as you say, he thinks you're treating his mother unkindly and unfairly based on past problems. Your husband can't be happy with the situation. Is he willing to attend marriage counseling to improve the situation?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by princesa View Post
                      Yes, I hold a grudge.
                      Whenever a Christian holds a grudge, I recommend they take a look at the Lord's Prayer.

                      "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Kinda puts things in perspective IMO. I know it's not exactly easy to let go of a grudge - but would you rather hold the grudge or have your sins forgiven?
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Whenever a Christian holds a grudge, I recommend they take a look at the Lord's Prayer.

                        "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Kinda puts things in perspective IMO. I know it's not exactly easy to let go of a grudge - but would you rather hold the grudge or have your sins forgiven?
                        hi OBP, i have worked on letting go of the grudge and at times I really thought i did but when he pays such attention to her whereas it appears he is not 'leaving and cleaving' but clinging would it really matter that i let go of the grudge if I see it continues? If I truly do let it go, (how on earth?) than it will only accomplish me feeling better about it (which is great) but he is still putting her first, is that not right?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by RBerman View Post
                          Princesa, as I recall from your previous posts, this has been an issue for years. You are concerned that your husband puts his mother before his wife. That would be a problem in the best of circumstances, but it's worse when the wife and the mother don't get along, regularly putting him in a position where he can only satisfy one by upsetting the other; thus as you say, he thinks you're treating his mother unkindly and unfairly based on past problems. Your husband can't be happy with the situation. Is he willing to attend marriage counseling to improve the situation?
                          We can't afford it, timewise or financial. The truth is he is so very close to his parents, he speaks to them for hours, he calls his sister every day because of the illness situation. I grew up very different. Myself and every other adult I know don't call their parents every day and talk for half hour. I understand there is a special situation on her illness but we are states away, why are they calling him at night for advice saying it's important? He's not God. I don't get it.

                          He said "My family is going through something right now and we're trying to figure out a way to help"......for 15 years whenever he said 'my family' he meant wife and kids, not this time, it's mommy, daddy etc...

                          I feel our nuclear family is second place.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I do think that his behavior is bizarre. It would get on my nerves, too. But that said, you chose to marry him, and you should have seen this coming.

                            On the plus side, at least there isn't much chance of his getting disinherited.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
                              I do think that his behavior is bizarre. It would get on my nerves, too. But that said, you chose to marry him, and you should have seen this coming.

                              On the plus side, at least there isn't much chance of his getting disinherited.
                              I never understood people who say things like 'well he was like this before you were married so....', honestly, some people marry young and they don't think of these things. It really doesn't make sense how this is supposed to be a useful thing to share.

                              Comment

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