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Jesus COMMANDED us to order dead people to come back to life

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  • #61
    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    This.
    Getting a do not resuscitate order is worth looking into for a number of good reasons.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      Getting a do not resuscitate order is worth looking into for a number of good reasons.
      I never thought that I might have to add "and don't let some religious nut try to call me back from the dead".
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        I never thought that I might have to add "and don't let some religious nut try to call me back from the dead".
        So, scratch my plan then.

        [*with a deep sigh, despondently puts up pair of pliers and jumper cables*]

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          UPDATE.....

          So, it turns out that the guy who "took charge" to "command [the deceased] to come back to life" was an elder of a local church. He is the same guy who caused tremendous grief that resulted in a pretty intense battle between me and the previous Superintendent of Schools, but that's another story.

          A fellow Pastor found out who it was, and encouraged that guy's pastor to contact me. I met with the pastor (who was NOT at the ER that night) along with one of his elders who WAS at the ER that night, but not the guy who led the "raising from the dead" attempt - supposedly he could not get off work to join us, even though he had previously agreed.

          So, the elder who led the charge - he had gotten word from somebody in his Church's small group that [the deceased] was in the hospital, and claimed that the Holy Spirit told him to go raise the deceased from the dead. He gathered up some of his friends, and showed up at the ER, claiming to be the deceased's pastor.

          As he came up the hall, I had stepped outside the room where the dead lay, and this elder greeted me by name, then his little entourage went into the room where the dead lay, with the wife on a chair beside the bed.
          That whole episode is in the OP, so I won't rehash it.

          In a meeting this week with the Pastor and another of his elders, meeting at my church, I simply asked the elder if he would recount what he believed happened that night.
          He kinda softened it up a bit, but did not dispute that the other elder did, in fact, state that Jesus commanded us to call the dead back to life, and that this elder did, in fact, command the deceased to come back to life.

          I think there was quite a bit more drama in the prayers that ensued, but didn't want to argue that - this elder said it was calm and orderly.

          I asked the Pastor - have you ever SEEN anybody come back to life like this? He admitted he had not.
          I asked - did you realize that, by the time your people arrived, the deceased had already been dead for nearly 2 hours? He admitted he did not.

          Then the elder who was there said that he noticed right away that the deceased had already 'changed color' - and was "long gone".
          This elder, it turns out, was a recent combat veteran from Afghanistan battles, and had seen more than his share of death, so he indicated, yeah - it was obvious he had been dead a while.

          I asked the Pastor if he knew of anybody in modern history who had been called back from the dead like this.
          He admitted he had only heard of a few cases in Africa, and in that case, the deceased had very recently died, and a missionary gently held his foot and asked God to bring him back to life.
          He said reports are that the man gasped, raised his arms, and came back alive. AND, the Pastor admitted that it was not known that the man was actually clinically dead.

          I just sat there, taking it all in.
          Then the Pastor made it absolutely clear that he had a long talk with those who came to the room that night to "raise the dead", and they agreed that the way it was handled was WAY out of order.
          The Elder, who KNEW me, just walked right past me and "took charge" even though I was the guy in the room with the family.
          Apparently, there was some back-channel communication with another family member who agreed to allow them to come pray to raise the deceased from the dead, but nobody communicated that to me.

          The Pastor explained that their church still believes in calling the dead back to life, but they know of no solid cases where that actually happened, and everything his guys did that night was "out of order".

          I feel better that I finally know for sure who this guy was (I had my suspicions) and that his own Pastor knows it was all done quite improperly.

          I am concerned, however, that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life.

          When I die - LEAVE ME ALONE - I do NOT want to be called back to this sinful world once the Lord has called me home!!!


          WADR, you are claiming two different things here:

          1) That the pastor and his church "still believes in calling the dead back to life" and

          2) "that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life." (My emphasis.)


          It is *possible* to make a case (by stringing together Matt. 10:8 and 28:20) that we are "commanded" to raise the dead, but I don't think most continuationists, even ones who believe that "raisings" still occur, would go that far.
          Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

          Beige Federalist.

          Nationalist Christian.

          "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

          Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

          Proud member of the this space left blank community.

          Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

          Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

          Justice for Matthew Perna!

          Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

            WADR, you are claiming two different things here:

            1) That the pastor and his church "still believes in calling the dead back to life" and

            2) "that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life." (My emphasis.)


            It is *possible* to make a case (by stringing together Matt. 10:8 and 28:20) that we are "commanded" to raise the dead, but I don't think most continuationists, even ones who believe that "raisings" still occur, would go that far.
            'Tis appropriate perhaps to consider that such action would be a matter of checking first to find out if revivication is God's desire on a case by case basis. Quite clearly, in the ordinary course, God does not see reviving the dead as desirable.
            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
            .
            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
            Scripture before Tradition:
            but that won't prevent others from
            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
            of the right to call yourself Christian.

            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

              WADR, you are claiming two different things here:
              I asked two different questions....

              1) That the pastor and his church "still believes in calling the dead back to life" and
              Yes, he affirmed that.

              2) "that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life." (My emphasis.)
              Yes, I pressed it that far, and he was much less... um... "affirming" in his answer, but did, in fact, agree.

              Quite honestly, I believe he was simply trying not to contradict his elder who is much more "Type A personality" than the Pastor.

              It is *possible* to make a case (by stringing together Matt. 10:8 and 28:20) that we are "commanded" to raise the dead, but I don't think most continuationists, even ones who believe that "raisings" still occur, would go that far.
              Yes, this still amazes me. And I really do think that the Pastor (a younger man) was intimidated by the "bold actions" of his elder who initiated all of this, and didn't want to appear he was not supporting the elder.

              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #67
                So, the more I think about this, the more I think it's a matter of a Pastor being young and inexperienced, and somewhat of a "people pleaser".
                I think the elder stepped over the line, and the Pastor KNOWS he stepped over the line, but can't bring himself to tell the elder he blew it.

                When I asked "why would God tell somebody to go raise somebody from the dead, then it didn't work - and the elder even announced 'this might not work'"?

                The Pastor explained that he asked the elder that very question, and the elder responded "Maybe God was just testing my obedience".

                Personally, I believe this elder is a loose canon who was just made an elder about 6 months ago AFTER he had created major controversy in the community over his misguided and, allegedly unintended, attack on our teachers by declaring that our teachers are "teaching Marxism".
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #68
                  "Testing my obedience", my foot. Surely not at the most grievous time in other peoples lives! Let him prove his obedience by actually reading and understanding God's Word about the issue and not acting on such foolish impulses!



                  Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                    "Testing my obedience", my foot. Surely not at the most grievous time in other peoples lives! Let him prove his obedience by actually reading and understanding God's Word about the issue and not acting on such foolish impulses!
                    EGGzackly!!! In my opinion, this "elder" is "Peter before the cross", and should never have been made an elder.

                    From another ministry....
                    Paul tells us, “Lay hands suddenly on no man….” A better translation would be, “Don’t give your seal of approval to people too hastily….” You see, it’s very possible to lay hands on people too quickly — to give them the seal of our approval before we really know them and to impart authority to them before they are ready. This is a foolish mistake that produces painful consequences.


                    But, their church isn't even of my denomination, and I have no say in their affairs.

                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      EGGzackly!!! In my opinion, this "elder" is "Peter before the cross", and should never have been made an elder.

                      From another ministry....
                      Paul tells us, “Lay hands suddenly on no man….” A better translation would be, “Don’t give your seal of approval to people too hastily….” You see, it’s very possible to lay hands on people too quickly — to give them the seal of our approval before we really know them and to impart authority to them before they are ready. This is a foolish mistake that produces painful consequences.


                      But, their church isn't even of my denomination, and I have no say in their affairs.
                      You are still free to point out error in scriptural misinterpretations.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Personally, I believe this elder is a loose canon who was just made an elder about 6 months ago AFTER he had created major controversy in the community over his misguided and, allegedly unintended, attack on our teachers by declaring that our teachers are "teaching Marxism".
                        Was that deliberate?
                        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                        .
                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                        Scripture before Tradition:
                        but that won't prevent others from
                        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                        of the right to call yourself Christian.

                        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                          You are still free to point out error in scriptural misinterpretations.
                          I did, politely, while acknowledging they are free to be wrong.


                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                            Was that deliberate?
                            Like I said - he's a loose canon. We (a bunch of citizens) were "at war" with the School Board over some very liberal policies.
                            This guy assumed a lot - that a particular version of CRT was being taught.
                            We were in the process of identifying candidates for school board to help them get elected.
                            This guy took it upon himself to put notices on social media that "our teachers are teaching Marxist principles", blah blah blah....
                            It created a HUGE backlash, and our (then) Superintendent of schools used that to attack our local pastors and other conservative groups.

                            So, it was deliberate in the sense that he meant it to "support" our school board candidates, but totally misguided in that it cause tons of unnecessary distraction.
                            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                              Like I said - he's a loose canon. We (a bunch of citizens) were "at war" with the School Board over some very liberal policies.
                              I was wondering because the gun is spelt "cannon."
                              Among the several definitions of "canon" - "a clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a cathedral or collegiate church"
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by tabibito View Post

                                I was wondering because the gun is spelt "cannon."
                                Among the several definitions of "canon" - "a clergyman belonging to the chapter or the staff of a cathedral or collegiate church"
                                Laughing -- no, I intended "loose cannon", and had on my mind the cessationism versus continuationism debate involving the "closed canon".
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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