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Jesus COMMANDED us to order dead people to come back to life

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    AND, because God is sovereign, and subject to nobody, He can do what He wants wherever and however He wants any time He wants.
    They would say that He set parameters on His own sovereignty when He gave dominion to Adam. Since then, He "can't" always do what He "wants" without breaking His word.
    Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

    Beige Federalist.

    Nationalist Christian.

    "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

    Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

    Proud member of the this space left blank community.

    Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

    Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

    Justice for Matthew Perna!

    Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

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    • #47
      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

      They would say that He set parameters on His own sovereignty when He gave dominion to Adam. Since then, He "can't" always do what He "wants" without breaking His word.
      And He wouldn't 'want' to do that!
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

        That's an argument against all of the resurrections recorded in Scripture itself.
        Wait -- you mean there's not a single case of a resurrection (technically a "resuscitation") where the raiser begged and pleaded for the raisee to rise?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

          That's an argument against all of the resurrections recorded in Scripture itself.
          Not necessarily. Lazarus died (and was raised) before the resurrection, and I'm not as wont as many Christians are to just automatically assume "all the nice people went straight to heaven" before that point.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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          • #50
            So, the funeral was Saturday morning - I didn't see any of the "body raisers" in attendance.
            I still plan on finding out who they were, and why they felt it proper to barge in on the hospital room like they did.

            By the way - the funeral parlor was PACKED, standing room only.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              So, the funeral was Saturday morning - I didn't see any of the "body raisers" in attendance.
              I still plan on finding out who they were, and why they felt it proper to barge in on the hospital room like they did.

              By the way - the funeral parlor was PACKED, standing room only.
              They should be named and shamed. (Well, not on here, but you know what I mean...)
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                They should be named and shamed. (Well, not on here, but you know what I mean...)
                I'm waiting for the opportunity for the son of the deceased to talk about it, and I'll look for an opportunity to ask who those people were --- in the hospital room while they were praying, he kinda liked at me like "what's this?"
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                  I'm waiting for the opportunity for the son of the deceased to talk about it, and I'll look for an opportunity to ask who those people were --- in the hospital room while they were praying, he kinda liked at me like "what's this?"
                  you left out an "i"



                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    you left out an "i"

                    or sumpen
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      When my dad had a stroke and was in a coma and the doctors were not confident he would ever wake up, my mom's old baptist church's elders came to his room and anointed him with oil and said prayers for his recovery. He woke up soon after that. I believe their prayers worked. But ultimately it was God's decision, they asked, they didn't command God to heal him.

                      Never heard of anyone trying to raise the dead other than the fakes on TBN. I don't think it would hurt to ask God for a miracle like that, but it would be entirely up to God to decide, not us to command, or to brag about being able to do it on TV.


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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                        When my dad had a stroke and was in a coma and the doctors were not confident he would ever wake up, my mom's old baptist church's elders came to his room and anointed him with oil and said prayers for his recovery. He woke up soon after that. I believe their prayers worked. But ultimately it was God's decision, they asked, they didn't command God to heal him.

                        Never heard of anyone trying to raise the dead other than the fakes on TBN. I don't think it would hurt to ask God for a miracle like that, but it would be entirely up to God to decide, not us to command, or to brag about being able to do it on TV.
                        EGGzackly .... I think it was the arrogance of these four, coming in and, basically taking over, but made phony by stating up front "this may not work".
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          UPDATE.....

                          So, it turns out that the guy who "took charge" to "command [the deceased] to come back to life" was an elder of a local church. He is the same guy who caused tremendous grief that resulted in a pretty intense battle between me and the previous Superintendent of Schools, but that's another story.

                          A fellow Pastor found out who it was, and encouraged that guy's pastor to contact me. I met with the pastor (who was NOT at the ER that night) along with one of his elders who WAS at the ER that night, but not the guy who led the "raising from the dead" attempt - supposedly he could not get off work to join us, even though he had previously agreed.

                          So, the elder who led the charge - he had gotten word from somebody in his Church's small group that [the deceased] was in the hospital, and claimed that the Holy Spirit told him to go raise the deceased from the dead. He gathered up some of his friends, and showed up at the ER, claiming to be the deceased's pastor.

                          As he came up the hall, I had stepped outside the room where the dead lay, and this elder greeted me by name, then his little entourage went into the room where the dead lay, with the wife on a chair beside the bed.
                          That whole episode is in the OP, so I won't rehash it.

                          In a meeting this week with the Pastor and another of his elders, meeting at my church, I simply asked the elder if he would recount what he believed happened that night.
                          He kinda softened it up a bit, but did not dispute that the other elder did, in fact, state that Jesus commanded us to call the dead back to life, and that this elder did, in fact, command the deceased to come back to life.

                          I think there was quite a bit more drama in the prayers that ensued, but didn't want to argue that - this elder said it was calm and orderly.

                          I asked the Pastor - have you ever SEEN anybody come back to life like this? He admitted he had not.
                          I asked - did you realize that, by the time your people arrived, the deceased had already been dead for nearly 2 hours? He admitted he did not.

                          Then the elder who was there said that he noticed right away that the deceased had already 'changed color' - and was "long gone".
                          This elder, it turns out, was a recent combat veteran from Afghanistan battles, and had seen more than his share of death, so he indicated, yeah - it was obvious he had been dead a while.

                          I asked the Pastor if he knew of anybody in modern history who had been called back from the dead like this.
                          He admitted he had only heard of a few cases in Africa, and in that case, the deceased had very recently died, and a missionary gently held his foot and asked God to bring him back to life.
                          He said reports are that the man gasped, raised his arms, and came back alive. AND, the Pastor admitted that it was not known that the man was actually clinically dead.

                          I just sat there, taking it all in.
                          Then the Pastor made it absolutely clear that he had a long talk with those who came to the room that night to "raise the dead", and they agreed that the way it was handled was WAY out of order.
                          The Elder, who KNEW me, just walked right past me and "took charge" even though I was the guy in the room with the family.
                          Apparently, there was some back-channel communication with another family member who agreed to allow them to come pray to raise the deceased from the dead, but nobody communicated that to me.

                          The Pastor explained that their church still believes in calling the dead back to life, but they know of no solid cases where that actually happened, and everything his guys did that night was "out of order".

                          I feel better that I finally know for sure who this guy was (I had my suspicions) and that his own Pastor knows it was all done quite improperly.

                          I am concerned, however, that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life.

                          When I die - LEAVE ME ALONE - I do NOT want to be called back to this sinful world once the Lord has called me home!!!



                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                            UPDATE.....

                            So, it turns out that the guy who "took charge" to "command [the deceased] to come back to life" was an elder of a local church. He is the same guy who caused tremendous grief that resulted in a pretty intense battle between me and the previous Superintendent of Schools, but that's another story.

                            A fellow Pastor found out who it was, and encouraged that guy's pastor to contact me. I met with the pastor (who was NOT at the ER that night) along with one of his elders who WAS at the ER that night, but not the guy who led the "raising from the dead" attempt - supposedly he could not get off work to join us, even though he had previously agreed.

                            So, the elder who led the charge - he had gotten word from somebody in his Church's small group that [the deceased] was in the hospital, and claimed that the Holy Spirit told him to go raise the deceased from the dead. He gathered up some of his friends, and showed up at the ER, claiming to be the deceased's pastor.

                            As he came up the hall, I had stepped outside the room where the dead lay, and this elder greeted me by name, then his little entourage went into the room where the dead lay, with the wife on a chair beside the bed.
                            That whole episode is in the OP, so I won't rehash it.

                            In a meeting this week with the Pastor and another of his elders, meeting at my church, I simply asked the elder if he would recount what he believed happened that night.
                            He kinda softened it up a bit, but did not dispute that the other elder did, in fact, state that Jesus commanded us to call the dead back to life, and that this elder did, in fact, command the deceased to come back to life.

                            I think there was quite a bit more drama in the prayers that ensued, but didn't want to argue that - this elder said it was calm and orderly.

                            I asked the Pastor - have you ever SEEN anybody come back to life like this? He admitted he had not.
                            I asked - did you realize that, by the time your people arrived, the deceased had already been dead for nearly 2 hours? He admitted he did not.

                            Then the elder who was there said that he noticed right away that the deceased had already 'changed color' - and was "long gone".
                            This elder, it turns out, was a recent combat veteran from Afghanistan battles, and had seen more than his share of death, so he indicated, yeah - it was obvious he had been dead a while.

                            I asked the Pastor if he knew of anybody in modern history who had been called back from the dead like this.
                            He admitted he had only heard of a few cases in Africa, and in that case, the deceased had very recently died, and a missionary gently held his foot and asked God to bring him back to life.
                            He said reports are that the man gasped, raised his arms, and came back alive. AND, the Pastor admitted that it was not known that the man was actually clinically dead.

                            I just sat there, taking it all in.
                            Then the Pastor made it absolutely clear that he had a long talk with those who came to the room that night to "raise the dead", and they agreed that the way it was handled was WAY out of order.
                            The Elder, who KNEW me, just walked right past me and "took charge" even though I was the guy in the room with the family.
                            Apparently, there was some back-channel communication with another family member who agreed to allow them to come pray to raise the deceased from the dead, but nobody communicated that to me.

                            The Pastor explained that their church still believes in calling the dead back to life, but they know of no solid cases where that actually happened, and everything his guys did that night was "out of order".

                            I feel better that I finally know for sure who this guy was (I had my suspicions) and that his own Pastor knows it was all done quite improperly.

                            I am concerned, however, that this Pastor still believes that we are commanded to command the dead to come back to life.

                            When I die - LEAVE ME ALONE - I do NOT want to be called back to this sinful world once the Lord has called me home!!!
                            So nothing about the elder pretending to be the man's pastor in order to gain access? I'd think that would be a big issue.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              So nothing about the elder pretending to be the man's pastor in order to gain access? I'd think that would be a big issue.
                              Yes, the elder who was at the meeting downplayed that, and claimed that the man said he "represented the pastor", not that he was the pastor.
                              While it's possible I misheard that, I don't think so, cause I knew at the time that - IF this was the man I thought it was - he was NOT a pastor.

                              Note - it had been a while since I had met this man, I had only met him briefly, and when I saw him again, I believe he had gained a lot of weight, so I wasn't sure it was him.
                              PRETTY sure, but wasn't certain.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                When I die - LEAVE ME ALONE - I do NOT want to be called back to this sinful world once the Lord has called me home!!!
                                This.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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