SBC booted Saddleback over female pastors

[tabibito]

On her Facebook page, Marg Mowczko reposted this article from May 2021 in response to the news: There are Women Pastors in the New Testament.

I read through some of the responses on the linked page, including your own. The name, νυμφαν (nymphan), is in the accusative case which doesn't help to differentiate whether it is a masculine or feminine word. Accents don't help because they were seldom used in the first century - it would boil down to the translator's opinion of what the accent should be. The Byzantine text shows "his house," the UBS5 shows "her house." Altogether too murky an argument as support for either view.

As to Junia,

https://www.touchstonemag.com/archiv...id=21-08-022-f
Who, then, is guilty of the sex change? Stand up the thirteenth (1927) edition of Nestle: the standard Greek Testament beloved of twentieth-century “scientific” and “modern” biblical scholarship! Again—Yes! Not Dark Age monks; not obscurantist popes; not medieval misogynist conspirators; not pre-Enlightenment bigots; it is the brightest and the best of liberal European and North American modern scholarship that took a reconstructive scalpel to Junia’s groin. All subsequent Greek Testaments, including the influential United Bible Society editions, slavishly followed the obviously infallible magisterium of the younger Nestle without qualm or hesitation.
...
As far as translations are concerned, the Latin Vulgates give either Juniam or Juliam, a manifestly feminine name; and the sixteenth-century English translations, including the Authorized Version and the Roman Catholic version from Rheims, regarded the name as feminine. Belleville and Epp show that the overwhelming number of writers and commentators in the first Christian millennium and a half believed St. Paul was addressing a female Junia; and like Burer and Wallace, whose 2001 NTS article (arguing that Junia was not an apostle) ignited the present phase of this controversy, they agree that the feminine form of the name is overwhelmingly more probable (or, to use Eppspeak, certain).

The argument that Junia was said to be "deemed worthy by the apostles" only arose after the argument that she was a male finally collapsed under the weight of evidence. The problem with the "deemed" worthy story is - there is no "deemed" anywhere near the text; it has been pulled out of thin air. "They who are," not "they who are considered," and "outstanding among the apostles," not "outstanding by the apostles."
.

	Romans 16:7
1	ασπασασθε	vb: aor, mid, imprtv・indctv, 2pp	you (pl) 　 give <...> welcome	greet, welcome, embrace, salute, pay one's respects, acclaim, hail 　 ασπαζομαι
2	ανδρονικον	τον noun: acc masc sgl	Andronicus (name, dir obj)	ανδρονικος　〆
3	και	και　cnjnctn	and	also, and, too ✧ broad and general connective use - e.g. connecting two nouns, may mean "of."
4	ιουνιαν	τον noun: acc fem sgl	Junia (name, dir obj)	ιουνιας　〆
	τους 0	dem pron・τον acc, masc, pl	...	"the" (pl, dir obj), not applicable in translation ο
6	συγγενεις	η.τη noun: nom.dtv fem sgl	‡ relatives (dir obj)	συγγενης
5	μου	pronoun: gtv 1ps	of_me	of_me・my・mine εγω
7	και	και　cnjnctn	and	also, and, too ✧ broad and general connective use - e.g. connecting two nouns, may mean "of."
8	συναιχμαλωτους	adj τους: acc masc pl	‡ 　 fellow prisoners (dir obj)	co-captive, fellow prisoner 　 συναιχμαλωτος
	μου	pronoun: gtv 1ps	of_me	of_me・my・mine εγω
10	οιτινες 2	reltv prnn: nom masc pl	who (subj)	who being
9 11	εισιν	vb: prs … indctv 3pp	they 　 are	prs: 1ps εγω ειμι; 2ps συ ει; 3ps αυτος.αυτη.αυτο εστιν; 1pp ημεις εσμεν; 2pp υμεις εστε; 3pp masc αυτοι fem αυται neut εισιν [infntv: ειναι] 　 ειμι
12	επισημοι	adj: nom masc pl	‡ 　 eminent (pl, + subject)	✧ splendid, prominent, outstanding, conspicuous, distinguishable/singular; marked, notable, remarkable, eminent ✧ notorious 　 επισημος
13	εν 2	prpstn: dtv	in, into, by (beside), at, among	⑨ in, into, by, at, among (of persons: as a member of a nominated group) 　 εν
14	τοις	def art: dtv, masc・neut, pl	the (+ ind obj)	to, with, by, et al.
15	αποστολοις	τοις noun: dtv masc pl	‡ 　 apostles (indir obj)	commissioners.apostles
16	οι 2	rel prnn: nom masc pl	(they) 　 who	who, they who, which same 　 οι
17	και	και　cnjnctn	and	also, and, too ✧ broad and general connective use - e.g. connecting two nouns, may mean "of."
21	προ	prpstn: gtv	from・to・with・prior to	④　(movement) toward 　(location) in the presence of・with 　(association) of・from 　ΤΙΜΕ beforehand 　προς
22	εμου	pers prnn: gtv	of? me	of_me・my・mine
18	γεγονασιν	vb: pfct act indctv 3pp	they 　 have been	come to be, exist, occur ✧ produce, arise, start ✧ become, emerge ✧ be born ✧ acquire ✧ be present.situated　 　 γινομαι　〆
19	εν 2	prpstn: dtv	in, into, by (beside), at, among	⑨ in, into, by, at, among (of persons: as a member of a nominated group) 　 εν
20	χριστω	τω.noun: dtv masc sgl	‡+ 　 anointed [one]　(ind obj)	[title] Christ (Gk.), Messiah (Heb.), Anointed One (Eng.) ✧ the.an anointing; one having been daubed.anointed with paint, perfume, oil et al 　 χριστος

or if "by" is used, it means "alongside." Again, nothing can be inferred to give the impression that the apostles' opinions are being referred to.

[tabibito]

it doesn't make sense to say that leaders will "give account" for "watching over [the] souls" under their oversight (Heb. 13:17) if they don't have authority to match that kind of responsibility. It makes no sense to claim that, as householder-pastor, Nympha was legally "responsible" for gatherings in her home if she did not have authority to back up that responsibility.

I have used that same argument, based in part on Paul's more than once stated claim that he did have authority to deal with unruly members, and requirement that congregation leaders do the same.

[phat8594]

I've gently pushed back against that in a few interactions with her and those who comment on her blog and Facebook postings. I appreciate her point. Some groups are way too focused on authority and hierarchy. Back in the '80s, I attended a church where, in training sessions, those in "helps" ministries (ushers, greeters, deacons, etc.) were sometimes referred to as "armor-bearers," or likened to Aaron and Hur holding up Moses's arms, with the pastor being the king or Moses. We got training materials from Bob Yandian and Mark Barclay and Bob Lemon (under-shepherd to Dad Hagin's son-in-law Buddy Harrison).

They seem to interpret "servant leadership" and Matt. 25:21, 23 as meaning that one "serves" primarily for the purpose of climbing the ladder to become a "master."

I think many on the egalitarian (Marg prefers the more precise "non-hierchical complementarian") side believe local shepherds should emulate what the Good Shepherd said in Matt. 20:28.

I'm sympathetic to the latter view, but it doesn't make sense to say that leaders will "give account" for "watching over [the] souls" under their oversight (Heb. 13:17) if they don't have authority to match that kind of responsibility. It makes no sense to claim that, as householder-pastor, Nympha was legally "responsible" for gatherings in her home if she did not have authority to back up that responsibility. As a patron, Phoebe would have had *some* level of authority over those she assisted, in cases where her patronage was operative.

Interesting take. Your point regarding the authority and responsibility is particularly apropos.

I am not familiar with her, so when I read the article I understood her to mean more that there are people who misunderstand the purpose of Kingdom authority. (meaning many people view authority the way the world does, which is used to lord over people vs authority).

I am of the camp that tends to believe that:

1. That authority and responsibility go hand in hand
2. Godly Authority does not entail lording over (in a worldly sense) to be served but rather an empowering and protecting understanding the weight of whom is under our care. (so this would include correction, rebukes, shepherding, etc)
3. In order to execute authority, one must be under authority. (ultimately to God)


I believe these three tenets are starkly different from how most of the world views / executes 'authority'.



In any case, I enjoyed your post. Great points.