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Is the term "false teacher" thrown around too often?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
    So, should we call prosperity preachers false teachers or not?
    In general, yes (seeing as I am answering a very general question). In my estimation they are dangerous. "Prosperity preachers" tend to preach false doctrine (mingled with some truths, of course), and are prone to contorting scriptural emphases in order to suit their obsession with temporal wealth and comfort. They should be avoided.

    Osteen, for example, totally waffled on the Gospel when he appeared on Larry King Live some years back. He appears to be a really nice guy, but I don't see how he has any business teaching thousands upon thousands of people. He is difficult to dislike, however, and this is part of the reason why people are so disarmed by him. Who would want to pick on Joel Osteen except for some bigoted, hate-filled "fundies"?
    Last edited by The Remonstrant; 03-30-2014, 08:30 AM.
    For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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    • #17
      Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
      He is difficult to dislike. . .


      You can't be serious. He's exactly the type of toothpaste smiling fake that you can't help but be disgusted with.

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      • #18
        I have no issue calling prosperity preachers false teachers. They're definitely dangerous enough.

        "Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
        "I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
        Katniss Everdeen


        Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
          In general, yes (seeing as I am answering a very general question). In my estimation they are dangerous. "Prosperity preachers" tend to preach false doctrine (mingled with some truths, of course), and are prone to contorting scriptural emphases in order to suit their obsession with temporal wealth and comfort. They should be avoided.

          Osteen, for example, totally waffled on the Gospel when he appeared on Larry King Live some years back. He appears to be a really nice guy, but I don't see how he has any business teaching thousands upon thousands of people. He is difficult to dislike, however, and this is part of the reason why people are so disarmed by him. Who would want to pick on Joel Osteen except for some bigoted, hate-filled "fundies"?
          Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post


          You can't be serious. He's exactly the type of toothpaste smiling fake that you can't help but be disgusted with.
          I never dreamed I would meet anyone more cynical than I!

          Originally posted by thewriteranon View Post
          I have no issue calling prosperity preachers false teachers. They're definitely dangerous enough.
          For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post


            You can't be serious. He's exactly the type of toothpaste smiling fake that you can't help but be disgusted with.
            Agreed. He looks like the stereotypical used car salesman.
            "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

            "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

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            • #21
              I always thought Osteen looked like a rat.

              ---
              The Prosperity Gospel is certainly more than just false, it is heretical. But I would hesitate to defame a more mild prosperity theology. I have heard the first publicly rebuked by those that teach the later, if I'm being vague let me explain.

              (I do not know if I believe the following, but I would not condemn any one who said it) God desires for you to prosper and if you obey God with the right intentions then He will bless you for it (sometimes monetarily). There is no formula that grant you prosperity, and God is not an ATM where you get what you put in; you get what He gives you.
              Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                I always thought Osteen looked like a rat.

                ---
                The Prosperity Gospel is certainly more than just false, it is heretical. But I would hesitate to defame a more mild prosperity theology. I have heard the first publicly rebuked by those that teach the later, if I'm being vague let me explain.

                (I do not know if I believe the following, but I would not condemn any one who said it) God desires for you to prosper and if you obey God with the right intentions then He will bless you for it (sometimes monetarily). There is no formula that grant you prosperity, and God is not an ATM where you get what you put in; you get what He gives you.
                I do not personally agree with that theology either but like you, I don't think I'd call it heretical. I think it tends to take the wisdom literature and generalize it too much but the caveat that it may not necessarily lead to financial blessings seems to be the saving grace.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                  So, should we call prosperity preachers false teachers or not?
                  Ehh....depends on what you mean by 'prosperity teachers'.

                  Are you talking about someone who believes God wants to prosper & bless the church and its people?

                  Or are you talking about someone who preaches Jesus as a means to get rich?..(or even how rich you are is dependent on how 'godly' you are)

                  The first, I'd say no...the second I'd say yes.

                  Of course, we shouldn't forget that at the other end of the spectrum we have those who teach asceticism and poverty as a means of righteousness...which I would also call false.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Pentecost View Post
                    I always thought Osteen looked like a rat.

                    ---
                    The Prosperity Gospel is certainly more than just false, it is heretical. But I would hesitate to defame a more mild prosperity theology. I have heard the first publicly rebuked by those that teach the later, if I'm being vague let me explain.

                    (I do not know if I believe the following, but I would not condemn any one who said it) God desires for you to prosper and if you obey God with the right intentions then He will bless you for it (sometimes monetarily). There is no formula that grant you prosperity, and God is not an ATM where you get what you put in; you get what He gives you.

                    I think it can be summed up like this:

                    One group sees God as a means to get money. (this is putting mammon before God)

                    Another group sees money as a means to serve God.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by phat8594 View Post
                      Of course, we shouldn't forget that at the other end of the spectrum we have those who teach asceticism and poverty as a means of righteousness...which I would also call false.
                      If asceticism and poverty were not seen as a means to righteousness but rather as an expression of prayerful dependence on God alone, would you still condemn it?
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                      • #26
                        I don't think asceticism is heretical until you start making it a requirement for salvation.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          I don't think asceticism is heretical until you start making it a requirement for salvation.
                          Who does that?
                          βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                          ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                          אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                            Who does that?
                            Nobody as far as I know. I meant to say that such a hypothetical requirement would be what it would take for me to slap that label on it.
                            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by robrecht View Post
                              If asceticism and poverty were not seen as a means to righteousness but rather as an expression of prayerful dependence on God alone, would you still condemn it?
                              I wouldn't call that person a 'false teacher' - but I would see that teaching as misguided in terms of the application of 'prayerful dependence on God alone' if I am understanding you correctly.

                              (I am speaking in generalities - not specifics..to be clear)
                              Last edited by phat8594; 04-01-2014, 07:07 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                Nobody as far as I know. I meant to say that such a hypothetical requirement would be what it would take for me to slap that label on it.
                                I think from Colossians 2 it is clear that that there are those who put an emphasis on asceticism (along with many other things that are of no value):

                                18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

                                20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.

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