Is raising taxes on the poor an issue of biblical morality?

[KingsGambit]

In light of Rick Scott (not officially speaking on behalf of the NRSC, but it would be naive to think otherwise)'s call for applying the income tax to all Americans, Amos 5:11 came to mind:

"Therefore because you trample on the poor and you exact taxes of grain from him, you have built houses of hewn stone, but you shall not dwell in them; you have planted pleasant vineyards, but you shall not drink their wine."

There's some context to be worked through, to be sure, but there are some principles there.

(page 17 of this: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...f-3ffd5f4a0000 )

[tabibito]

In light of Rick Scott (not officially speaking on behalf of the NRSC, but it would be naive to think otherwise)'s call for applying the income tax to all Americans, Amos 5:11 came to mind:

"Therefore because you trample on the poor and you exact taxes of grain from him, you have built houses of hewn stone, but you shall not dwell in them; you have planted pleasant vineyards, but you shall not drink their wine."

There's some context to be worked through, to be sure, but there are some principles there.

(page 17 of this: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...f-3ffd5f4a0000 )

The link doesn't work

[KingsGambit]

The link doesn't work

He states "All Americans should pay some income tax to have skin in the game, even if a small amount. Currently over half of Americans pay no income tax." Not to get too far into the political side of things, but the statement seems wrong anyway as the working poor already have "skin in the game" from payroll taxes and excise taxes.

[tabibito]

He states "All Americans should pay some income tax to have skin in the game, even if a small amount. Currently over half of Americans pay no income tax." Not to get too far into the political side of things, but the statement seems wrong anyway as the working poor already have "skin in the game" from payroll taxes and excise taxes.

And as I understand it, a GST (goods and services tax) to boot. Sales tax(?)

[rogue06]

He states "All Americans should pay some income tax to have skin in the game, even if a small amount. Currently over half of Americans pay no income tax." Not to get too far into the political side of things, but the statement seems wrong anyway as the working poor already have "skin in the game" from payroll taxes and excise taxes.

If they aren't paying any income tax wouldn't that mean they don't pay any payroll taxes?

Also, I think it needs to be kept in mind that being poor in America is hardly the same thing as being poor 2000 years ago, or poor in the majority of the world today. After all, one of the biggest health issues for the American poor is obesity. NOBODY is going to actually starve. Not something you typically associate with being poor.

[NorrinRadd]

It's definitely a problem that "over half" pay no income tax. I don't know that I'd agree that *everyone* should pay, but I don't think the non-payers should outnumber the payers.

[rogue06]

It's definitely a problem that "over half" pay no income tax. I don't know that I'd agree that *everyone* should pay, but I don't think the non-payers should outnumber the payers.

There is something fundamentally wrong with someone who pays no income tax (and gets a "refund") being able to vote to raise taxes and get more money for themselves.

[mossrose]

And as I understand it, a GST (goods and services tax) to boot. Sales tax(?)

That’s Canada. And Alberta is the only province without a sales tax.

[Littlejoe]

There is something fundamentally wrong with someone who pays no income tax (and gets a "refund") being able to vote to raise taxes and get more money for themselves.

Everyone who's a W2 employee has Income Taxes, FICA and Medicare taken out of their check...but, I know a man who works in a glass factory. Divorced and sole support for 4 kids, no child support or alimony from his Ex. He pays in all year but, he gets a refund every year that is more than he paid in. It usually comes down to income level and how many dependents you have...

[KingsGambit]

I'm mostly interested in the biblical context here. It seems plausible that at that time, the taxation was used to personally benefit the lifestyle of the king. There wasn't anything like the modern welfare state. I'm trying to work through this out of personal interest; it seems unlikely that any presidential candidate is going to actually run on that platform.

[rogue06]

I'm mostly interested in the biblical context here. It seems plausible that at that time, the taxation was used to personally benefit the lifestyle of the king. There wasn't anything like the modern welfare state. I'm trying to work through this out of personal interest; it seems unlikely that any presidential candidate is going to actually run on that platform.

The poor were heavily taxed in ancient days, which is not the case today -- many are actually given tax money.

Comparing them is like apples and oranges.

[Thoughtful Monk]

I'm mostly interested in the biblical context here. It seems plausible that at that time, the taxation was used to personally benefit the lifestyle of the king. There wasn't anything like the modern welfare state. I'm trying to work through this out of personal interest; it seems unlikely that any presidential candidate is going to actually run on that platform.

The taxes also went to pay the army and whatever constituted a local police force. After all, the king doesn't want his potential revenue stolen.

I agree with rogue06 that it is probably not possible to compare back then to today. I would agree that it is possible to get Biblical guidance on how much taxes should be taken and how they should be spent. I think the government is involved in too many areas, but I just can't see how they could ever been gotten out of them.

[KingsGambit]

The taxes also went to pay the army and whatever constituted a local police force. After all, the king doesn't want his potential revenue stolen.

I agree with rogue06 that it is probably not possible to compare back then to today. I would agree that it is possible to get Biblical guidance on how much taxes should be taken and how they should be spent. I think the government is involved in too many areas, but I just can't see how they could ever been gotten out of them.

The topic of Rehoboam sometimes comes up in that area, but I'm not sure you can really get a "raising taxes is immoral" message out of that so much as you do a "raising taxes can be unwise". The real lesson there, I think, has to do with not ignoring advice from one's elders.

[Thoughtful Monk]

The topic of Rehoboam sometimes comes up in that area, but I'm not sure you can really get a "raising taxes is immoral" message out of that so much as you do a "raising taxes can be unwise". The real lesson there, I think, has to do with not ignoring advice from one's elders.

That sounds right to me. There is probably less about how the government should govern in the Bible than some people think. The Bible is great for how individuals should live and how to be in relationship with God. On everything else it's not as clear or silent.

[rogue06]

That sounds right to me. There is probably less about how the government should govern in the Bible than some people think. The Bible is great for how individuals should live and how to be in relationship with God. On everything else it's not as clear or silent.

Given that man-made governments weren't exactly something God approved of in the first place...